Honestly sad that the reddit folks found their way to this forum as well, this new attitude is a real shame.

I would be quite interested in hearing a counter-argument to what I posted. I would never push for this system in a group that wanted to do things some other way, but I think that when things go live you will find this viewpoint to be quite a lot more common than the poll here would suggest.

If you see my post right before yours I mentioned how it was on my server originally which is why I'm very surprised by this viewpoint given that it was nonexistent for me back then. As I also mentioned I wonder if I was lucky with ending up on a server with such a friendly and trustworthy community or if there was such a big difference between EU and NA server ideas. I really don't know.

My viewpoint is that going in suspecting everyone of being a ninja looter just creates a negative atmosphere for everyone. Obviously there are bad apples but you whittle them out as you go and don't group with them anymore. I would go as far as to say 99% of people that I encountered were trustworthy and honest, maybe I just got lucky, we'll never know.

I think the idea is that getting an upgrade to your gear feels way better than some gold. And even if so due to the unstable nature of the AH, how do you know such an item will even be up there for you to purchase? Maybe there is none. Maybe there is and it's ridiculously overpriced. Maybe the person who won the item after everyone needed it won't sell it to you for a fair price. Maybe the guy would just rather use it for his enchanting instead of letting you get an upgrade.

I highly preferred this way of handling loot and at least for the server I was on it worked really well. This is just my opinion of course, will be interesting to see what it will be like in classic.

Fair enough. I had a different experience on an NA server. Ninja looting was a real problem. Looking at a retrospective thread about that server there are comments about one notorious looter. Yes Zode, we still remember you. Getting people to all roll need on all BoEs nullified that problem.

This is actually very interesting, maybe there really was a big difference between regions. I'm EU and had a totally different experience to what you had. I'm very curious as to how it will play out in classic. Another factor we need to remember is that the people on reddit or barrens chat probably makes about about five percent of the player base that we will see on classic wow so any polls and opinions we see here are such a minority that we really don't have much of a clue as to what the actual game will be like. The mystery factor to everything, be it class distribution, factions or even the way loot is handled is exciting!

Another factor we need to remember is that the people on reddit or barrens chat probably makes about about five percent of the player base that we will see on classic wow so any polls and opinions we see here are such a minority that we really don't have much of a clue as to what the actual game will be like.

True say

I guess I should just count myself lucky that I played on such a great server where the idea always was that you only need on things you actually need and intend to use.

So you played on a greedy server then. Not sure why you consider that lucky. Hopefully it'll be too difficult for those types of people to get groups in WoW Classic so we can weed out the entitled kids who think that they're more important than anyone else in their group.
I think the idea is that getting an upgrade to your gear feels way better than some gold.

Again, I'm not sure why you expect 4 other random people to care about your feels. All BoE items are equal value. You are putting an emphasis on your own personal progression over the other people who assisted you in completing that dungeon. That is called greed.

You are in a five man group. A nice hunter BoE bow drops. It's an upgrade for the hunter. Its worth 50 gold on the AH. How much is it worth to the non-hunters? Obviously its worth 50g to them. If it is worth more than 50g to the hunter then maybe we have an argument that it should go to him. But is it really worth more than 50g to him? Then why hasn't he farmed the gold and bought it off the AH? In fact it probably isn't worth more than 50g to him and even if he won it, he would be better off selling it on the AH and buying necessary skills or what not.

This is exactly right. I mean the person who can use the item will always make a case that it should go to them, why wouldn't they? Just because someone can use something, and just because it may be itemized for them, does not mean that equipping it will result in the highest value earned. I feel like people who are pro Needing BoE's are oversimplifying the entire discussion. "It's an upgrade for him, he equips it, he does better..." Not exactly. What if that item is a rare BiS twink item? You would pass to some level 19 rogue so that he can use it for 4-5 levels before he replaces it instead of advocating that group needs it and someone potentially earns hundreds of gold? Equipping that level 19 item is bad for the group, its bad for the guy who equips it, its bad for the server... Its just a waste.

What about server changing items like flask recipes that were mentioned above? This item could change the entire game for your guild on the first few weeks, and you pass it to some random guy because he happens to roll alch? In this situation you lose a VERY important item that has significant value for you through your guild, and item you WOULD be using and have access to when someone in your guild learned it, you pass and risk someone ninjaing, only to give it to some random who may or may not have alch high enough to learn it and THEN you dont even know if this guy will play enough on the server to justify having that recipe or if he will stop playing a week later... *That recipe will produce more value for your server than the single player who wields it.*

The underlying issue here is value. What is valuable to you? It's not quite as simple as item vs gold. We all want Classic for the community right? Sometimes you get a drop so good, you have a responsibility to ensure that it isnt wasted and ends up being used in a productive way. Would your guild /roll for the first Thunderfury drop? No? Why not? "Thats different!". Is it? Certain items have a value so great, and are so impactful that you should make an effort to ensure they are obtained by someone who will use them responsibly. "But youre advocating for everyone rolling need..." Yes, in this scenario, at least you have a CHANCE to impact the outcome of that item instead of just passing on it for some arbitrary code that is regularly violated by the majority of the playerbase. A code that cant be enforced and a code that puts the players who are bound to it at a distinct disadvantage in a game that is won and lost by loot.

Sometimes you get a drop so good, you have a responsibility to ensure that it isnt wasted and ends up being used in a productive way

To clarify my point. It is hard to split hairs and build a case for what items are impactful enough to be greeded and which ones should be needed. The game is far too dynamic to have every eventuality outlined. For this reason, it becomes far easier to simply roll need for valuable BoE items. Just because you can equip it, and just because it is an upgrade, doesnt mean that equipping it will net the highest value outcome for that item. In most cases, equipping it wont.

Let me make myself clear. The greed button in game literally has gold on it. If you are needing for gold, i will black list you for it.

Greed is an option for "AH Spec" items. This is bad habbit to Need on items you need only to sell and not equip it.

I think the idea is that getting an upgrade to your gear feels way better than some gold.

Again, I'm not sure why you expect 4 other random people to care about your feels. All BoE items are equal value. You are putting an emphasis on your own personal progression over the other people who assisted you in completing that dungeon. That is called greed.

I will be needing on all BoP rares and epics too, I can disenchant and sell shards on AH, which progresses my character further than you guys' gear upgrade is able to.

I will be needing on all BoP rares and epics too, I can disenchant and sell shards on AH, which progresses my character further than you guys' gear upgrade is able to.

What a total bad faith argument.

This has been explained thousands of times for nearly two decades, including in this very thread, but if you're still having trouble understanding I'll try once again to break it down for you:

All BoEs have equal value to all members of the group because you can either buy or sell the item for the same amount of money.

BoPs, obviously, do not have equal value. If you want a real world example, imagine if Hands of the Exalted were a rare BoE. They might be worth about 100 gold to players based on similar pre-raid BIS blues. You cannot disenchant them for 100 gold worth of value.

Your argument holds no weight, but go ahead and try to claim that you're more important than anyone else in your group and see how far that mentality gets you once you've been blacklisted by the server.

Additionally, the argument about the names of the buttons (Need/Greed) or the images they depict is completely irrelevant. They mean different things in different situations (Pugs, guild groups, BoEs, BoPs, etc). Not only would it be impossible for Blizzard to design a different loot system for several situations, it would be pointless and needlessly complicated.

If a https://classic.wowhead.com/item=943/warden-staff drops and there is a feral druid in the group, it's going to them. I would hate to see them miss out on a need roll and never be able to afford it from the AH. This isn't a blanket answer, but my personal opinion on BoE distribution in groups.
People are greedy mofos, people are evil and a lot of people are going to have a bad time.

If a Warden Staff drops and there is a feral druid in the group, it's going to them. I would hate to see them miss out on a need roll and never be able to afford it from the AH. This isn't a blanket answer...

This is exactly why most people will roll need on BoE items. There is no blanket answer. The only way to maintain some semblance of order with loot distribution while also maintaining consistency in pugs is to simply need on BoE items. That wardens staff is VERY valuable for the feral. In a perfect world, should it go to him? Sure, maybe... But there is no denying that with a valuable item like Wardens, all players in the group could sell it and reinvest to obtain items of equal value. Therefore the wardens staff has equal value for all group members.

Wardens is actually a great talking point because it will drop in low level content, yet maintains its value at max level. Most druids will be feral while leveling and very few druids will remain feral at max level. So Wardens will default go to ferals (most/all druids) who are leveling, most of whom will retire this item to their bank at max, instead of being rolled on by the entire group? Defining a players individual needs is timely and complicated. The general rule that can be used to avoid ninjaing and ensure fair loot distribution while maintaining consistency is simply to roll need on BoE's.

With Blizzard taking a hands off approach to loot disputes, I cant see any reason that players wont be needing on all BoE's. I will say, that this often causes controversy in groups and I will also say that when I roll need and win, I allow all players who passed to /roll and compare their rolls to my initial roll.

I allow all players who passed to /roll and compare their rolls to my initial roll.

Unfortunately the World [of Warcraft] is not full of people that will take this fair and level headed approach. It's messy no matter which way you look at it. People are greedy, fights will ensue. Run dungeons with friends/guildies as often as possible, there is much more sane and sensible decisions made with friends. With PUGs, expect anything.

So the Druid deserves a Warden Staff (offspec item) more than the other members of the group deserve their Edgemaster's Handguards (mainspec item), Freezing Band (mainspec item), Stockade Pauldrons (mainspec item), etc?

I'd love an explanation for that thought process.

What about... everyone contributed equally and therefore should have an equal opportunity to obtain an upgrade to their character? Why is everyone so determined to arbitrarily play favorites?

And if you want to give up your roll, then fine that's your decision. But if you're gonna shame or "blacklist" other people simply for taking their earned random shot at an upgrade, then that just makes you a jerk.

I will do whatever the group does. If its normal BoE stuff not worth to much gold people can need and equip but if its some really expensive BoE I will write "all need" and click need and expect everyone to need, but I have also greeded in similar situations. It depends on the group and situation really. The vast majority of all players are nice and honest. Its usually not a problem.

So the Druid deserves a Warden Staff (offspec item) more than the other members of the group deserve

If a Warden Staff drops and there is a feral druid in the group, it's going to them.

If you were referring to my post, I specifically mentioned that if there was a feral druid in the group. I don't expect PUGs to follow my example though, PUGs can be such a mixed bag it's impossible to predict what some people will do.

In a guild group I would pass for anyone who could use, but in a pug? Are you really going to pass on a Teebu's because a random guy says he will use it?

I don't expect PUGs to follow my example though, PUGs can be such a mixed bag it's impossible to predict what some people will do.

This whole thread is about PUGs. It doesn't make any sense to discuss how groups of friends or guilds distribute their loot. Obviously they have other priorities, like raid progression.

And again, why does the feral Druid deserve his upgrade over the other 4 members of the group? Why is everyone in this thread trying to arbitrarily assign loot?

Everyone says that there's no argument for rolling need on BoEs, but as soon as an argument is proposed no one can seem to come up with a response.

Its all about talking it out. In the beginning of the instance it is totally acceptable to just say "Hey guys, everyone Need BoEs" and just go with that. It prevents that single ninja guy from waiting for everyone to greed and then needing.

Basically, if everyone rolls NEED on a BoE, then no one can ninja it and it's fair. While if people choose greed, they are vulnerable to some ninja choosing need just to make gold. It's not a big deal.

Its all about talking it out. In the beginning of the instance it is totally acceptable to just say "Hey guys, everyone Need BoEs" and just go with that. It prevents that single ninja guy from waiting for everyone to greed and then needing.

Basically, if everyone rolls NEED on a BoE, then no one can ninja it and it's fair. While if people choose greed, they are vulnerable to some ninja choosing need just to make gold. It's not a big deal.

Not fair for the person that really needed that piece of gear which someone just needed to sell on AH.