Collectibles that we earn on Classic realms should be added to our battle.net accounts, and should be usable on all future legacy realms that support the Collections system (so mounts and pets would only be usable on legacy MoP+ realms, WoD+ for toys, Legion+ for item appearances)

And I'm getting tired of the poorly-thought-out "reasons" why this would supposedly be a bad idea. They're all crap, and I'm going to explain why they're all crap.

1) "Oh noes, someone else has the same thing I have! My own thing is not cool anymore" or "my thing is only cool because it's not available anymore"

Tier 3 armor is cool because it LOOKS cool, not because it wasn't obtainable during Wrath and Cataclysm. Corrupted Ashbringer is cool because it whispers madness into your ears and because you can enter that one Scarlet dungeon with it and the NPCs will do cool stuff instead of attacking you. And also because it looks cool... but not because it isn't available anymore. The ZG mounts honestly aren't that cool. If I saw you running around Org with the ZG raptor, I wouldn't know that it was any more special than any other raptor. On the other hand, when I cruise the skies in my Mimiron's head, everyone is jealous because giant flying robot heads are inherently awesome, even though it was never removed from the game and I didn't get it until like a month ago. And what of those low-level greens that were removed from the game and which nobody remembers? How often do you wear your old Moon Robes of Elune and Brushwood Blade as status symbols? Never, because even though they were removed from the game, they were never cool, and being removed from the game didn't make them cool.

Bottom line: the rare shit that you earned back in 2004-2006 will not be made any less cool by the fact that other people can once again earn it just like you did.

2) "Only people who did the cool thing back in THE DAY should have the reward for it" or "my thing proves that I played in Vanilla and that I therefore have a huge penis"

This makes perfect sense for rewards that were always intended to be limited-time-only. If you were around during the Opening of the Gates of AQ, but you were too much of a scrub to bang the gong in time and get your black scarab, then sorry, but there shouldn't be do-overs for that. For everything else, this is BS. We all know that the vast majority of Corrupted Ashbringers and Tier 3 armor in existence weren't earned at level 60. Most Ashbringers were acquired by teams of level 70 characters roflpwning through Naxxramas effortlessly. Most of those ZG mounts were probably soloed at level 80. Screw doing things back in "the day". What SHOULD matter, what SHOULD give you bragging rights, is doing things at the appropriate character level and item level. A person who gets a Corrupted Ashbringer three years from now at level 60, with a raid group of other level 60 characters, has "earned" its appearance for transmog purposes far more than some bottom-feeder who got it at level 70 back in 2008.

Also, nobody cares that you played back then. And being able to advertise that fact doesn't make your penis bigger.

3) "But then Classic realms will be invaded by loot tourists who don't actually care about Classic!" Or "People will only play long enough to ninja the one thing they want, then they'll disappear back to modern WoW"

And they'll all give up after a week when they realize how much harder Classic was. I'm serious. Are there people crazy enough to invest YEARS of their lives into playing a version of a game that they don't even like, just to have one more thing on their collections tab on Live realms? Sure. And you can count them on two hands, at most. They're a non-issue.

4) "Classic WoW isn't about collecting stuff"

Yes it is. Every RPG ever has been about collecting stuff.

5) "Classic is only for diehard #nochanges purists like me, not for loot tourists"

Classic isn't just for people who think that Classic was the game's high point and that every expansion from BC onward has made it worse. Classic is for everyone who thinks that Classic is better than modern WoW.

6) "Muh #nochanges!"

This system isn't actually a change, at least not an in-game one. It's purely an account-side feature. It has no effect on gameplay at all.

7) It will warp the prices of random low-level greens just because they have unique appearances that aren't available anymore"

So? There's plenty of low-level garbage to go around for new players. They don't need the specific expensive green thing with the unique appearance. And if you happen to acquire one of those greens on a character who's too high-level or the wrong class, I bet you'd be more than happy to take the gold of the loot tourists who are buying these greens.

8) "Because Blizzard said so"

This is the traditional "is-ought" fallacy. Blizzard's current policies and beliefs are not the same as what they will be in the future, or should be. Blizzard once said that Classic realms would never happen, and look where that ended up.

9) "There should be no additional rewards for playing Classic. Classic should be its own reward"

This would be a great argument if it was applied consistently, and if Modern was the only reward for playing Modern. But it's not. You can do stuff in modern WoW that gets you extra shit in Diablo III and Starcraft II, and vice versa. Nobody is asking for "additional" rewards; we're just asking that Classic not be put at an artificial disadvantage. See point #5 in the list below.

10) "If you want modern players to have a way to get these items, put them on the BMAH - don't drag Classic into it!"

This is basically the opposite argument of "these things should be hard/impossible to get" or "these things should be status symbols to show how big your penis is". The counterargument is likewise its mirror image: these items should be for anyone who can EARN them, not for people who have nothing better to do than farm herbs/ores and camp the BMAH

-----

Now, here's a list of reasons why collection linking SHOULD be a thing:

1) Because some people want it and because it improves the fun and value of the game for people who like to collect stuff

This is literally the only reason that matters. Fun. Games exist because people enjoy playing them. Anything that makes the game more enjoyable and fun for some people, without making it less fun or enjoyable for others, is necessarily good.

2) Because Classic servers might die

If Classic proves to be an eventual failure, the servers are unplugged, and we're all forced back to modern WoW, then we should all have a permanent record of what we earned and accomplished during our time on Classic realms. We should be able to take all that stuff with us, not let it disappear into the void.

3) Because without it, there's no functional difference between Blizzard's servers and private servers

If I'm going to pay $15/month for Classic, I'd better be getting something for it that private servers can't offer... and no, "fireballs deal the correct amount of damage and murlocs yield the correct amount of experience when killed" is not a good enough offer. "you can talk to your friends when they're playing Hearthstone" is not a good enough offer.

4) Many people did legitimately earn rare and no-longer-obtainable shit back in "the day", and delete it before anyone knew transmog was going to be a thing

Those people should be given a way to get their shit back

5) Without collection linking, there's an asymmetric reward structure unfairly favoring modern

Right now, if I'm farming zombies in Eastern Plaguelands on modern servers and I get a Teebu's Blazing Longsword, I can equip it and its appearance will be useable forever. However, if I spend the same time farming zombies in EPL on a Classic server, well then, fuck me. I should have been playing on Modern instead. The current setup encourages people to play modern even if they believe that Classic was better-designed overall. Collection linking is necessary to even the playing field.

I will update both of these lists in response to feedback.

EDIT: If a system like this is implemented, I'd be okay with making account-wide achievements visible on legacy Wrath and Cat realms, and backporting the Legion wardrobe system to legacy Cat, MoP, and WoD realms. That is because these systems do not affect gameplay or require a collections tab, and therefore making them account-wide did not affect gameplay or the UI. Pets, mounts, toys, and heirlooms did affect gameplay (even if just by taking up inventory space) and the collections tab, and therefore making them account-wide altered gameplay and the UI, so they should be forward-port only. Riding around on a Big Love Rocket in the DK starting zone is just ridiculous.

your arguments about against
I disagree with your post completely. here let me hit up each point as they come up
1) So ask for these items to be able to be earned in retail again, with the exception of stuff like Naxx, Black AQ, and Benediction/Rhok instead of causing issues in classic. if you could obtain them in retail it fixes the problem without adding new problems.
2) if its something that was removed they absolutely have a point.
3) it does not matter if they give up after a week or not. it does not matter if it's only a small impact. the question that needs to be asked is "does this affect the authenticity of classic wow, and will it change how the game is played". and the answer is yes, yes it does.
4) agreed, RPGs are about collecting stuff. now go ahead and show me one RPG that is about collecting stuff for a completely different game.
5) and 6) I have never seen anyone use this argument before. Classic wow is for everyone, but it doesn't have to change itself to appeal to everyone.
7) it doesn't matter, the fact that it is having an impact on the economy and gameplay is an issue in itself. you are fixing one problem (items no longer obtainable in retail) by causing problems in another game. that isn't a good solution.
8) and yet blizzard has not budged one inch on post vanilla changes that people have asked for. if anything they have ensured that classic is even more authentic by reducing the use of loot trading, and by adding spellbatching back in. beyond that - show me one post vanilla change people have asked for that is being added in that isn't being used because blizzard wants it for one reason or another.
9) except you're conflating two seperate things here. you do not need to play those games to earn those rewards. it is merely a pre order bonus that gets you stuff in other games. if they want to throw out a collectors edition for classic and give you some cosmetic rewards in other games, so be it.
10) so don't put them on the BMAH - instead make them obtainable in retail again.

arguments for
1) and it would also cause issues for classic in the form of people ninja looting, increasing turnover, and causing issues for guilds when someone ups and vanishes. you don't just look at the positives when making a change, you look at the affects of the change as a whole. this has far too many downsides for the few upsides.
2) no, if classic servers die, not all of us go back to modern, some people aren't even subbed and they go back to other games. and no, just because it might disappear means nothing.
3) if you truly believe this, you haven't seen all the differences between vanilla wow and private servers. and frankly, even if private servers were authentic, does there NEED to be a difference? the mere fact that i didn't need to worry about corrupt GMs selling items and gold, the server being shut down for being illegal, etc is enough of an advantage alone
4) yeah, i'm one of them, and i'm sitting here saying don't do this.
5) except if i want that appearance forever, all i have to do is keep the sword around and use it as part of my RP set. and collection linking would do nothing for that situation in classic at all.

Eh, I bet you still read it anyway :lol:

Another false assumption. Keep digging yourself a bigger hole, troll.
calling retail "the real game", it's a really big red flag.

I never called it that, though I did once, on another website, refer to Classic as "the real game"

EDIT: Oh wait, you're referring to my comment "The BMAH still exists for people who are allergic to real WoW." Yeah, uh, "real WoW" was pretty obviously referring to Classic there, unless you don't know what allergies are or think the BMAH is going to be on Classic realms
1) So ask for these items to be able to be earned in retail again, with the exception of stuff like Naxx, Black AQ, and Benediction/Rhok instead of causing issues in classic. if you could obtain them in retail it fixes the problem without adding new problems.

That would solve the availability problem. It doesn't fix the asymmetric reward structure. Try actually reading the post in full, please.
2) if its something that was removed they absolutely have a point.

No, they don't.
3) it does not matter if they give up after a week or not. it does not matter if it's only a small impact.

Yes, it absolutely does.
the question that needs to be asked is "does this affect the authenticity of classic wow, and will it change how the game is played"

And it doesn't. Next.
4) agreed, RPGs are about collecting stuff. now go ahead and show me one RPG that is about collecting stuff for a completely different game.

You're already playing it. You can get stuff in Starcraft II and Diablo III for doing things in World of Warcraft. But more importantly, modern WoW and classic WoW are NOT different games. They're different versions of the same game: version 1.13 and (by next Tuesday) version 8.2
5) and 6) I have never seen anyone use this argument before.

If you're not even familiar with all of the arguments that have been made in support of your own position, then you are not qualified to debate this issue.
7) it doesn't matter, the fact that it is having an impact on the economy and gameplay is an issue in itself.

No it isn't.
you are fixing one problem (items no longer obtainable in retail) by causing problems in another game.

Except that there's no actual problem being created. And they're not different games. They're different versions of the same game.
8) and yet blizzard has not budged one inch on post vanilla changes that people have asked for.

And for a decade, they didn't budge one inch on the issue of classic servers.
show me one post vanilla change people have asked for that is being added in that isn't being used because blizzard wants it for one reason or another.

That's an invalid question. Nothing ever gets put in any game unless that game's developers or publisher want it there.
9) except you're conflating two seperate things here.

No, I'm not.
you do not need to play those games to earn those rewards. it is merely a pre order bonus that gets you stuff in other games. if they want to throw out a collectors edition for classic and give you some cosmetic rewards in other games, so be it.

Pre-orders? Collector's Edition? What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about stuff like the Kerrigan wings that I got in Diablo III for getting a specific achievement in World of Warcraft. You can't do that without actually playing World of Warcraft.
10) so don't put them on the BMAH - instead make them obtainable in retail again.

Still doesn't fix the asymmetric rewards
it would also cause issues for classic in the form of people ninja looting, increasing turnover, and causing issues for guilds when someone ups and vanishes.

Not to a significant degree.
you don't just look at the positives when making a change, you look at the affects of the change as a whole. this has far too many downsides for the few upsides.

On the contrary. Linking has far more benefits than dangers, and it is the anti-linkers who are ignoring the benefits and focusing on almost purely imaginary downsides.
2) no, if classic servers die, not all of us go back to modern,

Okay, not all. But a very large number.
3) if you truly believe this, you haven't seen all the differences between vanilla wow and private servers. and frankly, even if private servers were authentic, does there NEED to be a difference?

Yes.
the mere fact that i didn't need to worry about corrupt GMs selling items and gold, the server being shut down for being illegal, etc is enough of an advantage alone

For you and other people with OCPD, maybe. Not for everyone.
4) yeah, i'm one of them, and i'm sitting here saying don't do this.

One. Not all. Not even a majority. One.
5) except if i want that appearance forever, all i have to do is keep the sword around and use it as part of my RP set.

No, that's only keeping the item in your bags. Your bags are not your collection tab, and haven't been since Mists of Pandaria. Keep up with the patch notes, buddy.
and collection linking would do nothing for that situation in classic at all.

Uhh... yes it would. Do you mean to say "the item appearances collection is worthless in Classic because transmog does not exist in Classic"? That would be a valid point, if transmog was the only reason why people collected item appearances. But it isn't. People collect all kinds of stuff that they'll never use. I just spent several hours running Deadmines over and over again to add Corsair's Overshirt to my appearances even though I will never, ever use it for transmog.

Black Monarch You're the one trolling mate, literary no one in this entire thread/forum agrees with anything you've said. Either everyone here is an ignorant idiot or, well... you know.

It's like I said, people don't even need to argue against anything you said because it's clear that you're not able to make two consecutive arguments without contradicting yourself :lol: Guess it's easier to call me a troll than actually clarify anything.

@Black Monarch You're the one trolling mate, literary no one in this entire thread/forum agrees with anything you've said.

It's funny how you can't ever make a post without lying within your first two sentences.

@Black Monarch You're the one trolling mate, literary no one in this entire thread/forum agrees with anything you've said.

It's funny how you can't ever make a post without lying within your first two sentences.

Easy easy fellas, if this topic can’t continue without personal attacks then I will lock it.

@Black Monarch You're the one trolling mate, literary no one in this entire thread/forum agrees with anything you've said.

It's funny how you can't ever make a post without lying within your first two sentences.

> fresh account
> makes controversial post
> literary everyone in the thread disagrees
> receives 2 pages worth in a reply from a veteran member explaining why you're contradicting yourself
> "ur a troll because you lied when you said I was on the forums, not even gonna bother"

What's one got to do with the other? :lol: I got your point and I believe you, I was wrong to assume that sort of language was the result of hanging too much on the forums. What about the 3-4 actually relevant points about you not knowing anything about private servers, you contradicting yourself and everything?

You keep coming here to argue with other people for no goddamn reason and you consistently refuse to accept any other perspectives even though it's an entirely subjective manner. If anyone's trolling here that's you mate.

> literary everyone in the thread disagrees

Wow, this time you were able to wait until your third sentence to lie. Keep practicing. You'll be worth engaging with eventually.

> literary everyone in the thread disagrees

Wow, this time you were able to wait until your third sentence to lie. Keep practicing. You'll be worth engaging with eventually.

Black Monarch you're the most toxic person in this community and I hope Teebling bans you sooner rather than later.

That would solve the availability problem. It doesn't fix the asymmetric reward structure. Try actually reading the post in full, please.

asymmetric rewards don't matter. the entire point is that classic was a slower game. so what if it's harder to get the item in classic?

No, they don't.

according to you, which is entirely subjective.

Yes, it absolutely does.

no, it doesn't. the entire goal of classic is to be an authentic recreation of vanilla wow. linked rewards would seriously impact that.

And it doesn't. Next.

yes it does. you would impact the price of removed items, you would have an increase in ninja looting and player turnover. it would also lead to an increase in the price of enchanting materials and thus enchants in general.
just because you want to ignore all the negatives does not mean they aren't there.

Except that there's no actual problem being created. And they're not different games. They're different versions of the same game.

really. so you deny that your change would not have a negative impact on classic? that it isn't going to increase ninja looting, it isn't going to increase turnover, and it isn't going to increase the price of stuff on the AH? you're the worst liar ever.

That's an invalid question. Nothing ever gets put in any game unless that game's developers or publisher want it there.

and yet look at all the changes that have happened to world of warcraft over the years because of player feedback. you have to be the worst troll ever.

No, I'm not.

yes, you are.
Pre-orders? Collector's Edition? What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about stuff like the Kerrigan wings that I got in Diablo III for getting a specific achievement in World of Warcraft. You can't do that without actually playing World of Warcraft.

1 item. wow. and it was hearthstone. that is it. you literally have 1 example to fall back on. 1.

You're already playing it. You can get stuff in Starcraft II and Diablo III for doing things in World of Warcraft. But more importantly, modern WoW and classic WoW are NOT different games. They're different versions of the same game: version 1.13 and (by next Tuesday) version 8.2

provide examples. because you provided 1 example of something you can do, and it is heartstone to D3. nothing about wow or SC2.

If you're not even familiar with all of the arguments that have been made in support of your own position, then you are not qualified to debate this issue.

been active on reddit, mmo champion, and the classic blizzard forums. nothing anywhere. sorry.

Not to a significant degree.

1) this is entirely your opinion.
2) you have nothing to back this up on.
3) the fact that it is having an impact at all means it shouldn't happen.

On the contrary. Linking has far more benefits than dangers, and it is the anti-linkers who are ignoring the benefits and focusing on almost purely imaginary downsides.

more players who will promptly leave once they have what they want, taking everything with them and never being seen again, as well as impacting the economy of the game and leading to an increased in ninja looting. pros do not outweigh the cons.

Okay, not all. But a very large number.

really? are you sure? because most the people i know and most the people posting on the various forums i have seen that are interested in classic are NOT PLAYING WOW AT THIS TIME.
So you are going to have to back up your claim with hard stats.
Yes.
no, there doesn't. and the fact is that private servers were not authentic or even close to begin with. private server admins themselves have said they did a lot of guess work. furthermore, the increased security and the ability to know your character will always be there is incentive enough, if you can't manage the 15$ a month maybe you should prioritize your other issues first.

For you and other people with OCPD, maybe. Not for everyone.

i don't have OCPD, but the fact is that private servers are hardly authentic. they even admitted this themselves.

One. Not all. Not even a majority. One.

okay. you act as if i am the only one. there are plenty of others.

No, that's only keeping the item in your bags. Your bags are not your collection tab, and haven't been since Mists of Pandaria. Keep up with the patch notes, buddy.

i know this. point is that classic isn't about collecting like that. classic is old school. you don't like that. tough crap.
classic does not have to cater to you and people like you. as a matter of a fact, everything blizzard has said and done so far shows they don't give a crap about people interested in the crap you want.
Uhh... yes it would. Do you mean to say "the item appearances collection is worthless in Classic because transmog does not exist in Classic"? That would be a valid point, if transmog was the only reason why people collected item appearances. But it isn't. People collect all kinds of stuff that they'll never use. I just spent several hours running Deadmines over and over again to add Corsair's Overshirt to my appearances even though I will never, ever use it for transmog.

collection linking wouldn't give you a collections tab in classic, it would give you the item in your retail collection. unless your further trying to caviot it and slide in further post vanilla changes which wouldn't surprise me.

@Black Monarch you're the most toxic person in this community and I hope @Teebling bans you sooner rather than later.

the fact that he likes to handwave away all the negatives and pretend it won't have an impact is pretty telling.

> literary everyone in the thread disagrees

Wow, this time you were able to wait until your third sentence to lie. Keep practicing. You'll be worth engaging with eventually.

Nah troll, I double checked - s1atan Rootdancer teebling Teriko Relik Ulthric Scheyp C4N and Muhip. They all disagreed with all of your points, except for teeb who agreed with some of your points.

Can't tell if it's politeness or not, but everyone thinks you're a lousy troll now so please stop trolling and just accept your fate. Your arguments are terrible and there's at least 10 people here, in this thread, who disagree with you. Either all of them are ignorant folk who are unable or unwilling to accept other arguments/views on this game, or you are.

If you're not willing to accept my intelligent points which clearly explain why you're contradicting yourself and why it's clear as day that you know nothing about private servers, maybe you'll understand by the numbers. It doesn't seem that logical consistency or actual debate is of any interest of you.

the fact that he likes to handwave away all the negatives and pretend it won't have an impact is pretty telling.

He's not here to understand or debate any of his points, he's here to vent because he's a frustrated little troll.

He literary didn't understand the difference between private servers and Classic WoW outside of his own narrow minded interest in collectibles. That's how narrow minded he is. It's like saying not getting served ketchup is the same as being in prison because fries are going to taste like crap in both places.

I think earlier I said I'd be ok with this, but after reading more of these posts I've switched my mind and really don't want people fucking up the economy on a classic server for gains on a retail server.