Tauren are not better for PvP. Leeway works both ways. Tautens have a massive vulnerability to being hit and controlled in group fights. They will be incredibly vulnerable without dedicated heals. For warriors who spend most of their time playing solo, I would avoid Tauren like the plague. The beta, which highlights twinked warriors at odd level thresholds in 1v1 encounters that had a strict rule set, will not be a good metric to use when deciding if taurens are optimal for PvP.
Leeway works both ways, but its a net gain to Warriors. It’s actually a huge advantage for Tauren warriors with the added range. The key thing you forgot is that warriors always want to be in melee range, while basically every other class will try to kite the warrior, and avoid melee range. The most meaningful parts of fighting a Warrior don't occur at max range, but rather at close range.
The inverse of this is the reason being a Tauren Hunter is abysmal. Everyone accepts that for Hunters, Tauren are the worst possible race, but yet some people are blinded to the opposite side of this when it comes to Warriors. After all, Tauren get more gun/bow range - they can shoot people further away! BiS? No - long-range is not where the meaningful combat occurs -- it occurs at close range. So yes, even though Tauren Hunters can shoot further away, the more important combat scenarios occur while disengaging and kiting melee. Likewise, even though casters can hit Tauren Warriors further away, the key parts of combat occur after the Warrior closes the gap.
In short, the hitbox obviously a double-edged sword for Tauren Warriors, but the favorable edge of that sword so massively outweighs the unfavorable edge that it ends up being a net advantage.
PS, You mentioned healing - Tauren can also be healed from further away. If its a Tauren healer like Druid or Shaman, then you can add even more range. Its gets insane.
Leeway works both ways, but its a net gain to Warriors. It’s actually a huge advantage for Tauren warriors with the added range.
No it isnt. Perhaps it was in a dualing tournament with 1v1's but imagine that same warrior on an AV front line with no dedicated healer. While he will hit a TON of enemies, he will get hit by everything - always. He is a GIGANTIC punching bag.
Dont get me wrong, with dedicated heals, it will be great, but most warriors will spend most of their time without dedicated heals. Leeway works both ways and depending on the context of the situation, can be bad for warrior. As usually people are over-simplifying a complicated topic.
Leeway works both ways, but its a net gain to Warriors. It’s actually a huge advantage for Tauren warriors with the added range.
No it isnt. Perhaps it was in a dualing tournament with 1v1's but imagine that same warrior on an AV front line with no dedicated healer. While he will hit a TON of enemies, he will get hit by everything - always. He is a GIGANTIC punching bag.
Dont get me wrong, with dedicated heals, it will be great, but most warriors will spend most of their time without dedicated heals. Leeway works both ways and depending on the context of the situation, can be bad for warrior. As usually people are over-simplifying a complicated topic.
Why would I imagine a front line AV Warrior without heals? If you're front line PvPing as a Warrior without healers, then why are you even PvPing as a Warrior? At that point it doesnt matter whether you are an Orc or a Tauren. You're gonna have a bad time. When we're discussing BiS race for PvP Warrior, so we have to talk about it in the context of optimizing the class in its optimal conditions, and that includes a healer. Even in the non-optimal solo-playing casual context, Tauren is still probably better anyway since low skill players forget to use grenades, assuming they even have engineering at all. Additional Melee Range is also more consistent and more forgiving for casuals than a 75% failure rate dice roll, most of the PvP you do in Vanilla is in small skirmishes anyway, and Warstomp is a powerful and simple PvP ability.
You pointed out again that Leeway can work to a Warrior's detriment. I agree, but I already accounted for that. Again, yes - in some scenarios it works to the Warrior's detriment, but far more often larger hitboxes work to a Warriors benefit. There is a reason the Warrior community is thrilled that Leeway was confirmed working as intended. When you add the Tauren hitbox (and Warstomp) to the equation, it becomes oppressive.
Go Orcs.
As the min/max POV was was explained thoroughly already I just gonna add the style into the discussion:
After some time you will get bored looking at this big steak. As your fellow orc and troll razorgirls are looking more awesome with every gear update you might start mumbling 'why did I do that to me' to yourself.
And I think one of the reasons some streamers are going tauren this time is maybe that they got bored of creating schwarzenegger girl #17.
Why would I imagine a front line AV Warrior without heals? If you're front line PvPing as a Warrior without healers, then why are you even PvPing as a Warrior?
Because that will be the reality for most warriors most times. Most players are not a conjoined twin. Therefore they will spend most of their time solo, even if they have an organized team and are pushing premades. You will have scheduled times where you have the support of a healer, otherwise you area solo. A bleak reality for the tauren warrior.
and Warstomp is a powerful and simple PvP ability.
Wont provide anywhere near the value of hardiness in either a 1v1 or group fight context overall. Especially at the top end when people are geared and have the capacity to global one another.
You pointed out again that Leeway can work to a Warrior's detriment. I agree, but I already accounted for that. Again, yes - in some scenarios it works to the Warrior's detriment, but far more often larger hitboxes work to a Warriors benefit. There is a reason the Warrior community is thrilled that Leeway was confirmed working as intended. When you add the Tauren hitbox (and Warstomp) to the equation, it becomes oppressive.
Warriors are excited and many warriors see the potential downside that a tauren presents. All things are good in balance. Tauren reach will simply be too far in most cases and will work against taurens.
You will also see an over-representation of tauren warriors by primary influencers and content creators who will have the unique experience of having access to countless healers willing to follow them at all times.
Toll
**5 health per 5 seconds and there is nothing you can do about it!**
Because that will be the reality for most warriors most times. Most players are not a conjoined twin. Therefore they will spend most of their time solo, even if they have an organized team and are pushing premades. You will have scheduled times where you have the support of a healer, otherwise you area solo. A bleak reality for the tauren warrior.
I discussed this at length in my last post. Even accepting your no-healer premise, Tauren are still more forgiving because, again, most of your PvP is in small skirmishes — not the front line of AV.
Secondly, since we’re discussing BiS Warrior PvP race, then we should discuss it in its optimal conditions, which is with a healer.
Either way Tauren is the better PvP race in most situations. I explained this all in my last post.
Warstomp won’t provide anywhere near the value of hardiness in either a 1v1 or group fight context overall.
Let me back up to make sure you understand. Both races have a racial passive and racial active:
Passive:
Added Melee Range (Tauren) vs Hardiness (Orc)
Active:
Warstomp (Tauren) vs Blood Fury (Orc)
This whole conversation so far has been about the passive comparison. When I bring up Warstomp it’s in comparison to Orc’s active racial, Bloodfury. You are obviously aware that Warstomp is a far superior PvP active.
Warriors are excited and many warriors see the potential downside that a tauren presents. All things are good in balance. Tauren reach will simply be too far in most cases and will work against taurens.
You will also see an over-representation of tauren warriors by primary influencers and content creators who will have the unique experience of having access to countless healers willing to follow them at all times.
It’s actually the exact opposite; all the excitement from years of theory crafting has been centered around Orcs, and so there will be an over representation of a Orc Warriors. Just look at the poll in this thread as proof. Most people just reading online chat discussions over the last year will certainly have fallen for the Orc OP circlejerk. Obviously they’re strong, but Tauren’s melee range was not part of the most popular Private Server these last several years. That’s why everyone is so surprised by it — and therefore the theorycrafting that worshipped Orcs never had the Tauren hitbox to compare it to. Now that we’ve had the Beta, many if not most people who have had to deal with Tauren Warriors have clearly said that Tauren are more fearsome Warrior Race.