Troll is best for main tanking raids since threat is the biggest factor. Orc and Tauren are pretty interchangeable for tanking but bear in mind the main benefits of tauren are war stomp (which is amazing in pvp and dungeons, it can be useful for some raid trash too) and the extra range from leeway, not the extra HP. Orc is a good all round pick if you're not main tanking since the hardiness makes orc the PvP race and the axe specialisation is a great benefit to DPS.
WOTF getting no love?
WOTF getting no love?
For tanking?
WOTF getting no love?
For tanking?
Of course not... OP mentioned PvP as well as PvE. It's stupid to not consider WOTF if debating the best Warrior race for PvP.
Orc for all roles. Orcs are better DPS than Tauren, though Tauren are better tanks. The axe spec is garbage for tanking because tanking axes are extremely rare, shouldn't really consider it for extra TPS.
Tauren for pure PvP because of the added range. Stun resist is nice but increasing the area in which you can hit people by 96% (!!!!!!) is so much more broken. Especially on a class that doesn't want to hit 1 person standing in front of him, but all persons standing in a circle around him (Whirlwind).
96% because: normal melee hitbox = 5 yards, Tauren male melee hitbox = 7 yards.
Surface area of normal melee range = 2*pi*5^2 = 78.54.
Surface area of Tauren melee range = 2*pi*7^2 = 153.94.
153.94 / 78.54 = 1.96.
My dudes, just a quick feedback as some of you guys were interested.. I went 180 degrees on my class pick.
Read some more threads, talked with some friends and other players this past few days.
I changed my mind, Im actually going Orc Rogue for Classic. Thats my final decision.
Fits more of my playstyle, experience, playtime avaiable and goals.
Anyway, Im very happy with all the help you guys gave me this past few weeks, I've been learning a lot! =)
Lets see what class you would like to play tomorrow :biggrin:
Lets see what class you would like to play tomorrow :biggrin:
haha nope! :lol:
no more switching classes, thats final!
Lets see what class you would like to play tomorrow :biggrin:
haha nope! :lol:
no more switching classes, thats final!
I don't believe you :)
The axe spec is garbage for tanking because tanking axes are extremely rare, shouldn't really consider it for extra TPS.
I disagree with this. Axes are not uncommon, many drop throughout the course of vanilla. As a horde warrior who is competing against you for axes, the other warriors? Meaning you inherit most of the axes by default. But how does this help my TPS when I am tanking primarily with swords as they are optimized for tanking while axes are not? Because when you don't have threat, you can swap weapons in combat and equip two axes allowing you to generate more rage by dual wielding (as you don't have threat and aren't generating rage from being hit) and can increase your DPS and rage gen, thus increasing your TPS to re-establish threat on the mob before swapping back to sword and board. Similarly, you are able to start with a more aggressive tanking approach to potentially build threat quicker by using axes before you hot swap to your tanking weapon and shield. + axes makes this a very valuable approach. Options, Orcs have meaningful options due to their insane racials.
...
The problem with Axes when tanking raid bosses (dungeons are a different story) is this:
Raid bosses hit so hard you will be ragecapped almost all the time. This means that you can Heroic Strike every melee swing.
1) Heroic Strike can never be a glancing blow, so weapon skill will matter a whole lot less. It's mainly used to counter glancing blows.
2) Your TPS goes up a whole lot when wearing a fast weapon (such as a Dagger) because you can add the Heroic Strike damage and threat multiplier every 2.6 seconds (such as with Deathbringer Axe) or every 1.3 seconds (such as Alcor's Sunrazor). Nothing compares to that 1.3 second swing timer because of Heroic Strike mechanics.
These two things combined are why Axes skill is garbage for maintanking compared to Berserking. Berserking is much better because it affects your mainhand swing speed, which in turn allows you to pump out more Heroic Strikes.
An argument can be made for the offtank, because for the offtank the weapon skill really will matter (he won't be ragecapped due to being hit).
...
The problem with Axes when tanking raid bosses (dungeons are a different story) is this:
Raid bosses hit so hard you will be ragecapped almost all the time. This means that you can Heroic Strike every melee swing.
1) Heroic Strike can never be a glancing blow, so weapon skill will matter a whole lot less. It's mainly used to counter glancing blows.
2) Your TPS goes up a whole lot when wearing a fast weapon (such as a Dagger) because you can add the Heroic Strike damage and threat multiplier every 2.6 seconds (such as with Deathbringer Axe) or every 1.3 seconds (such as Alcor's Sunrazor). Nothing compares to that 1.3 second swing timer because of Heroic Strike mechanics.
These two things combined are why Axes skill is garbage for maintanking compared to Berserking. Berserking is much better because it affects your mainhand swing speed, which in turn allows you to pump out more Heroic Strikes.
An argument can be made for the offtank, because for the offtank the weapon skill really will matter (he won't be ragecapped due to being hit).
We were never talking about trolls. Look at the topic that OP posted. This was always a comparison between tauren and orcs. We need to stay within the boundaries of this conversation. Thus, Orcs have an opportunity to produce more TPS and can gain more by throwing on an offhand axe than a tauren can. If that same Orc chose to go full DPS, he will benefit more from +axes. Remember, OP is looking to do a variety of content including PvP. So everything that an Orc has going for it, comes into play. When we are comparing tanking, we are choosing tauren HP VS +axes for Orc. An argument can be made either way, but I would still opt to take +axes as it adds an opportunity to produce more TPS.
When we take a step back and look at the variety of content OP wants to do though, Orc still outvalues Tauren. OP has since decided to roll rogue anyhow.
I will be going Orc Warrior since it can do everything that i need which is 1. Tank 2. DPS. 3.PvP
I hope they will fix the range with leeway so it is actually not broken. It could seriously damage pvp overall.
I hope they will fix the range with leeway so it is actually not broken. It could seriously damage pvp overall.
There's lots of wonky shit going on in the beta. From what I've seen in clips etc. WoW Classic might actually be a less enjoyable experience on release than the more recent private servers we have been playing on. Just look at shit like this: https://clips.twitch.tv/GrossPiliableAardvarkRlyTho?fbclid=IwAR0jNOkyitzqI5W44L4D7kyThzOXgJlc8-Zo6s18IPMaQohFRBa73uGzIf4 and Blizz is still hiding behind https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/596392961642725397/600866738678005760 
?fbclid=IwAR0jzOMW0JJNzrwTqW5IPUdBcO4SP1cfFJ98sipfpicVDr7vnfKrjTBfoZw. Pets being broken obviously. I've seen reports in the Classic Mage Discord that AoE farming is nowhere close to what we have seen in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqKjds4LqQU due to melee mobs getting leeway. And look at what happened back in 2006 when a Warrior charged through a trap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GuiD8sNGEs&t=2m25s . "Working as intended". No thank you Blizzard. And those are just Mage and Hunter.
[/rant]
Arguments like we will preserve this bug because it matches our referential client are total bullshit. Why would they keep obvious bugs that have no reason to stay in game whatsoever. Such a stupid rationale. I'm starting to hate the term no-changes along with the people promoting it.
Guys, don't think i'm trying to be salt but these topics starting to be redicilouse. Every class is good, every race is good, just release yourself from those shackles and pick class and race that you enjoy most. Play the game its meant to be played and stop those min-maxes, jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez
Cheers :)
We do this constantly. People ask for what is "best". It typically involves them mentioning Orc. Orc is the best horde warrior race by a mile. We tell them that because the question is framed from a min/max perspective. People who arent min/maxers join the thread, that is asking a min/max question, and exclaim "BE WHATEVER YOU WANT, EVERYONE IS SPECIAL!" OP will typically squirm and make their case for taurens or undeads, we(usually me) point out why Orc is definitively superior. This goes on for a bit until they tucker out and the thread dies... 2-3 days later someone posts the same question, typically involving Orcs.
Hardiness is the best PvP racial ingame. Every competent PvPer has a stun. All of your opposition have grenades and built in stuns to their class with the exception of warlocks - warriors already have a lot of answers to warlock fear. For PvE throughput weapon skill is dominant, therefore axe skill is nuts. This can even affect PvE threat as new metas involving warriors doing DPS to generate threat before swapping to sword and board are emerging. Bloodfury rounds them out well offering a nice little bonus to both PvE and PvP for the most dominant warrior race combo ingame. The only case that could confidently be made for tauren is hp for tanking, and I still think that falls short given the Orcs combination of racials and the potential to gain more threat per second. Competent warriors in competent guilds would often prefer more TPS than HP from my experience.
Tauren range is sweet. We dont know how leeway will end up shuffling the meta. Leeway works both ways though, and tauren warriors are susceptible to FAR more snares and CC's, especially if they dont have a dedicated healer following them around at all times. The tauren warrior is a SUPER vulnerable punching bag in PvP.
If you play PvE dps, Orc axe spec is king. If you play PvP, hardiness will serve you best in most circumstances and provide the best value overall. If you are tanking in PvE, HP is less important than TPS - most tanking weapons are swords, but axes still provide and opportunity to provide additional TPS; In PvE tanking, a case can be made for tauren HP but I still think it is a weak case given the overwhelming strength of Orc in all other circumstances and the potential for a tanking Orc to generate more TPS especially as the meta grows into more and more aggressive/reckless tanking styles to generate higher TPS.
EDIT: I should have directly answered OP's question...
Choose the best overall race to roll as Horde Warrior in Classic, from these 2 options: Orc and Tauren.
Take in consideration the best choice to fulfill all roles: PVE DPS, PVE TANK and PVP.
If you can, explain your pick.
PVE DPS = Orc is superior for throughput - no argument can be made in opposition of this.
PvP = Orc is superior overall due to hardiness.
PvE TANK = A case can be made for either Orc or Tauren as a PvE tank, I think that TPS is more important than HP and would personally opt to play an Orc.
The best race overall is an Orc.
Many people who played the Beta at a high level actually said they feared Tauren Warriors more than Orc Warriors in PvP.
In PvE Orc are strictly better, but in PvP Tauren are better against most classes.
WOTF getting no love?
For tanking?
Of course not... OP mentioned PvP as well as PvE. It's stupid to not consider WOTF if debating the best Warrior race for PvP.
WOTF is great, but it loses some value on a class with an inherent fear break. It's definitely not useless though, since you're going to be caught outside of zerker stance sometimes. I'm going with Undead for my Classic Warrior mainly for the aesthetics, but WOTF being an extra fear break plus charm and sleep is nice.
And I've seen people mention WOTF being nice to have for tanking as well vs bosses who can fear. If your shamans don't have their tremor totems down and you're not tanking in berserker stance it's nice to have.
Everyone knows Orc is great in PvP for hardiness. If you go Prot down to Iron Will, an Orc Warrior can have an extra 40% stun resist, which is nutty considering all of the stuns in the game (including those grenades; check out how many people are planning to be engineers in that Reddit census poll).
I voted Orc in the poll since I think it is overall optimal, though as lots of people have mentioned here Trolls probably have the best threat-per-second thanks to berserking, and Tauren have some cool PvP bonuses in the form of war stomp and the extra melee range.
If i where going warrior i would pick Troll for tanking, if i wanted to play fury or pvp i would roll Orc.
Tauren are not better for PvP. Leeway works both ways. Tautens have a massive vulnerability to being hit and controlled in group fights. They will be incredibly vulnerable without dedicated heals. For warriors who spend most of their time playing solo, I would avoid Tauren like the plague. The beta, which highlights twinked warriors at odd level thresholds in 1v1 encounters that had a strict rule set, will not be a good metric to use when deciding if taurens are optimal for PvP.