There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
If you think this is drama. You should have seen my guild chat on Grobbulus.
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
If you think this is drama. You should have seen my guild chat on Grobbulus.
The common denominator there being Gnoll. Who likely caused the drama if I had to guess bahahaa.
Stfuppercut, Selexin, teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.
However, if you look at RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.
Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.
Thoughts?
Monarch has poorly thought out ideas and very low effort posts that are designed to stimulate attention. Whether people agree with him or disagree with him, he chalks it up to a win. He just wants attention. If people post criticism about him, like this, he smirks and thinks he won and if they agree with him, he appreciates the acknowledgement. Just a very immature guy.
Redridge is just unstable. His ideas are completely awful and they never change. We are stuck in an endless loop with gnoll because his mind never moves and idea forward it just keeps replicating and regurgitating over and over and over and over... Redridges post kept this forum alive for many of the dead weeks, but not by his own design. We sort of profiteered off of his insanity and used it to keep our own while we waited for Classic.
They both of their place on the forums and I cant really choose which one causes more or less damage. Every village needs an idiot, and we're fortunate enough to have three (looking at you Duki). I actually still get excited when I see either of them post because its usually the calm before the storm and while their posts never really stimulate productive or valuable discourse, they do stimulate discourse. Without them most days would be filled with "What Class Should I Play? Is this suboptimal build viable? SLOW DOWN YOURE ALL GOING TOO FAST!!!", so I welcome their awful posts and will continue to post on them despite it being a complete and total waste of effort.
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
Which is why I am still here. My servers community is dead ingame. Layering killed it. So I have my friends list, my guild, my server discord and Barrens chat.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players. Look at the streaming community. They are exploiting and powering through the raid content as fast as possible. Some of them will use similar tactics onces battlegrounds are released, assuming these streamers are still playing by then. Most won't be. So the question is, how do you make Classic WoW more competitive. PvP is the answer. Nobody wants to watch Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin. Players AFKing on flags. That is boring. Arena was Blizzard's answer to more competitive PvP. Arena was the wrong answer.
Classic WoW is special because of the open world. I realize that what Classic WoW is missing is better World PvP. That is why I make suggestions on how to improve World PvP in Classic. My ideas are not well developed admittedly and have many flaws. Some of them are outright stupid like that Zeppelin/Boats map I concocted. I receive a lot of great feedback on this forum, and the users here are actually willing to discuss and constructively criticize the suggestions I make, instead of spamming #nochanges.
Classic WoW is a great game, especially if you enjoy socializing and immersing yourself in a fantasy world. However, I realize that there are aspects of popular gaming that it is missing.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players.
Private server players disagree with you.
Look at the streaming community.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The other gibberish gets brought up by you each and every day and has been addressed. Youre wrong. Develop the idea a bit more and try to get a better delivery.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players.
Private server players disagree with you.
Look at the streaming community.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The other gibberish gets brought up by you each and every day and has been addressed. Youre wrong. Develop the idea a bit more and try to get a better delivery.
Blizzard agrees with me. Look at retail. The PvE is more challenging. The PvP is more competitive. There is no argument there
A lot of the players streaming Classic WoW are competitive. Many of them are top Arena players or Raiders. Some of the other streamers are competitive fps players. Classic WoW PvP lacks any competitive systems or ratings apart from honor grinding in battlegrounds. Nobody wants to watch or stream that. That is why I am devising a World PvP system for Classic WoW. Doing crossrealm Warsong Gulch in 2019 won't hold much interest for long.
Blizzard agrees with me. Look at retail. The PvE is more challenging. The PvP is more competitive. There is no argument there
A lot of the players streaming Classic WoW are competitive. Many of them are top Arena players or Raiders. Some of the other streamers are competitive fps players. Classic WoW PvP lacks any competitive systems or ratings apart from honor grinding in battlegrounds. Nobody wants to watch or stream that. That is why I am devising a World PvP system for Classic WoW.
And the community disagrees which is why Classic has had such incredible success. But, if you agree with Blizzard, retail is there for you. I'd recommend playing that.
Blizzard agrees with me. Look at retail. The PvE is more challenging. The PvP is more competitive. There is no argument there
A lot of the players streaming Classic WoW are competitive. Many of them are top Arena players or Raiders. Some of the other streamers are competitive fps players. Classic WoW PvP lacks any competitive systems or ratings apart from honor grinding in battlegrounds. Nobody wants to watch or stream that. That is why I am devising a World PvP system for Classic WoW.
And the community disagrees which is why Classic has had such incredible success. But, if you agree with Blizzard, retail is there for you. I'd recommend playing that.
Yes I know. While players like you were salivating over The Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King, I was spending thousands of hours on WoW forums and private servers denouncing the expansions and explaining why Classic should be brought back. I've been doing this since 2006. Does that make me insane? Partially. I argued over the direction of Vanilla WoW before TBC was even released. I don't think Classic WoW is a perfect game. I think it is actually more casual than the expansions in many respects. It encourages socialization. However, I do think that some systems like PvP could be improved. Crossrealm battlegrounds will likely do more harm than good. A lot of the appeal there is nostalgia, especially considering AB/WSG/AV have been part of retail ever since. World PvP is the key, since the World is the heart of WoW. I got to test Vanilla WoW a year before it came out. All I did was play the game, argue on the beta forums, and offer feedback. Vanilla WoW was rooted in the design of games like Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, as well as inspired by the communities that those games created. I saw what Blizzard did once they abandoned all of that. They made the The Burning Crusade, and the MMORPG genre has been cursed ever since.
Yes I know. While players like you were salivating over The Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King, I was spending thousands of hours on WoW forums and private servers denouncing the expansions and explaining why Classic should be brought back. I've been doing this since 2006. Does that make me insane? Partially. I argued over the direction of Vanilla WoW before TBC was even released. I don't think Classic WoW is a perfect game. I think it is actually more casual than the expansions in many respects. It encourages socialization. However, I do think that some systems like PvP could be improved. Crossrealm battlegrounds will likely do more harm than good. A lot of the appeal there is nostalgia, especially considering AB/WSG/AV have been part of retail ever since. World PvP is the key, since the World is the heart of WoW. I got to test Vanilla WoW a year before it came out. All I did was play the game, argue on the beta forums, and offer feedback. Vanilla WoW was rooted in the design of games like Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, as well as inspired by the communities that those games created. I saw what Blizzard did once they abandoned all of that. They made the The Burning Crusade, and the MMORPG genre has been cursed ever since.
Players like me were having reasonable discussions and playing on private. Discussions that are so reasonable that Blizzard decided to create Classic. Being the crazy guy on the subway screeching at the top of your lungs is no way to promote interest in something regardless if you were right or wrong. Your posts push far more away from your ideas than they do to help build the idea itself. Your approach is awful. Your ideas are poorly thought out. You do a lot more harm than you do good, whether you realize it or not.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The only exception to this is the private server streamers who stopped streaming private servers to prep and focus on Classic WoW launch (Esfand, TipsOut & Staysafe). These guys will be streaming Classic WoW for years to come. Others like Asmongold will eventually go back to Retail, or switch back and forth. He was never a private server streamer, he was never fully committed to the vanilla scene.
I don't like TipsOut very much. Staysafe I can handle and I really enjoy watching Esfand. He is skillful, knowledgeable and realistic with expectations in game - while also being quite funny/witty. Asmongold is hit and miss for me. I prefer him when he is being more serious/down to earth (which is typically when he is chatting on someone else's stream rather than his own).
I don't watch them often (Aus timezone vs. USA timezone) but if Esfand or Staysafe stream while I am leveling, I'll put it on the second monitor. They talk about the game, they are on end game content, and they discuss the current meta. It is interesting to see the top end progress guilds and how they are managing their guilds etc.
Edit: Sorry, went off-topic there. I see a lot of hate for most streamers who are tourist/bandwagon streamers - but some streaners are very dedicated to vanilla/classic WoW and that is their long term target audience. Which is players/viewers like myself I guess. I don't want to see streamers playing Retail WoW. I would prefer a completely different game, IRL stream, or just Classic WoW. Personal preference I guess.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.
The only exception to this is the private server streamers who stopped streaming private servers to prep and focus on Classic WoW launch (Esfand, TipsOut & Staysafe). These guys will be streaming Classic WoW for years to come. Others like Asmongold will eventually go back to Retail, or switch back and forth. He was never a private server streamer, he was never fully committed to the vanilla scene.
I don't like TipsOut very much. Staysafe I can handle and I really enjoy watching Esfand. He is skillful, knowledgeable and realistic with expectations in game - while also being quite funny/witty. Asmongold is hit and miss for me. I prefer him when he is being more serious/down to earth (which is typically when he is chatting on someone else's stream rather than his own).
I don't watch them often (Aus timezone vs. USA timezone) but if Esfand or Staysafe stream while I am leveling, I'll put it on the second monitor. They talk about the game, they are on end game content, and they discuss the current meta. It is interesting to see the top end progress guilds and how they are managing their guilds etc.
Edit: Sorry, went off-topic there. I see a lot of hate for most streamers who are tourist/bandwagon streamers - but some streaners are very dedicated to vanilla/classic WoW and that is their long term target audience. Which is players/viewers like myself I guess. I don't want to see streamers playing Retail WoW. I would prefer a completely different game, IRL stream, or just Classic WoW. Personal preference I guess.
Yes, but those streamers pull like 2k viewers. It obvious that Classic WoW will lose interest with most streamers. The question is, is there anyway to keep their interest? Is there something system or mechanic that the game lacked. I am sure Blizzard is asking themselves this. Classic is great, but why don't these streamers want to stay?
Yes, but those streamers pull like 2k viewers.
Just checked, Staysafe has 7k viewers - last night Esfand had 12k viewers.
PvP content, PvE content farming, community events, alts, meme specs, challenges. There is plenty to keep them playing and entertaining for a long while. Short attention span zoomers can go back to retail.
Yes I know. While players like you were salivating over The Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King, I was spending thousands of hours on WoW forums and private servers denouncing the expansions and explaining why Classic should be brought back. I've been doing this since 2006. Does that make me insane? Partially. I argued over the direction of Vanilla WoW before TBC was even released. I don't think Classic WoW is a perfect game. I think it is actually more casual than the expansions in many respects. It encourages socialization. However, I do think that some systems like PvP could be improved. Crossrealm battlegrounds will likely do more harm than good. A lot of the appeal there is nostalgia, especially considering AB/WSG/AV have been part of retail ever since. World PvP is the key, since the World is the heart of WoW. I got to test Vanilla WoW a year before it came out. All I did was play the game, argue on the beta forums, and offer feedback. Vanilla WoW was rooted in the design of games like Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, as well as inspired by the communities that those games created. I saw what Blizzard did once they abandoned all of that. They made the The Burning Crusade, and the MMORPG genre has been cursed ever since.
Players like me were having reasonable discussions and playing on private. Discussions that are so reasonable that Blizzard decided to create Classic. Being the crazy guy on the subway screeching at the top of your lungs is no way to promote interest in something regardless if you were right or wrong. Your posts push far more away from your ideas than they do to help build the idea itself. Your approach is awful. Your ideas are poorly thought out. You do a lot more harm than you do good, whether you realize it or not.
My maniacal rantings across a multitude of forums created a lot of discussion. Blizzard was well aware to the point that I was banned from their forums over 20 times for criticizing the expansions. Classic WoW is the best MMORPG in the last 15 years. I've tried a bunch, and they don't even compared to Classic WoW. The developers of these MMORPGs don't even seem to understand why Classic WoW was so good. I am not even sure if Blizzard even does. With that being said, the content will run out. The playerbase will decline, but all can be saved with Classic+ content. Adding better World PvP should be a priority. I am sure your chit chat on the Nostalrius forums were widely read.
My maniacal rantings across a multitude of forums created a lot of discussion.
But how much of that was quality? And how many of your suggestions were reasonable or logical? Almost none.
Blizzard was well aware to the point that I was banned from their forums over 20 times for criticizing the expansions.
I cant imagine why. You seem like such a level headed and coherent individual. /s
Classic WoW is the best MMORPG in the last 15 years. I've tried a bunch, and they don't even compared to Classic WoW. The developers of these MMORPGs don't even seem to understand why Classic WoW was so good. I am not even sure if Blizzard even does. With that being said, the content will run out. The playerbase will decline, but all can be saved with Classic+ content. Adding better World PvP should be a priority. I am sure your chit chat on the Nostalrius forums were widely read.
No one understands but you! You will be the savior of MMO's. We need boat battles, and airdrops and we need a housing system! We need to build ALL PVP OUTDOOR content!!!! Because if the focal point of WoW was PvP THAT WOULD BE GRAND! (that certainly isnt when the game went to shit or anything... /s). Not sure what to tell you. You dont really seem to retain any criticism. You take it well, but its almost as if it rolls off of you to a fault. You dont actually challenge your own ideas or change them when others do. You just rant in an endless loop about the same poorly thought out ideas. My grandmother has dementia and its the same. I love her a lot but it can be pretty exhausting after a few hours. I'm sure its not easy for her though and I am sure its not easy for you. A prisoner in your own mind.
A prisoner in your own mind.
Let's look at the some of the popular streamers playing Classic WoW. A lot of them have already cleared MC + Onyxia. Content like battlegrounds isn't likely to hold their interest. Sure, there is a lot to do for casuals, but what about hardcore or even competitive players?
Blizzard added Arena, Heroics, and harder Raids in TBC for a reason. However, I don't think this type of content would be as popular nowadays. Just look at BFA. So if you are Blizzard, and you want to retain some of these streamers, what would you change about Classic?
I am suggesting that a new PvP system might be the solution. One that is not instanced like Arena. What else could be the solution?
Daily Quests - At their conception during The Burning Crusade, daily quests felt like a fun, totally optional way to earn additional gold and rewards. I do not feel that they were the chore-like slog that they eventually evolved in to.
You've obviously never done the grind to exalted with Netherwing or Ogri'la. God, what a nightmare.
My maniacal rantings across a multitude of forums created a lot of discussion. Blizzard was well aware to the point that I was banned from their forums over 20 times for criticizing the expansions.
You bought the game 20 times just to keep posting on the forums? Holy shit. Well, I can now sleep comfortably knowing that I'm not the craziest person on this forum.
Daily Quests - At their conception during The Burning Crusade, daily quests felt like a fun, totally optional way to earn additional gold and rewards. I do not feel that they were the chore-like slog that they eventually evolved in to.
You've obviously never done the grind to exalted with Netherwing or Ogri'la. God, what a nightmare.
My maniacal rantings across a multitude of forums created a lot of discussion. Blizzard was well aware to the point that I was banned from their forums over 20 times for criticizing the expansions.
You bought the game 20 times just to keep posting on the forums? Holy shit. Well, I can now sleep comfortably knowing that I'm not the craziest person on this forum.
I did the Nethering grind after TBC. The one with the eggs. It was pretty brutal. I can just imagine how it was in TBC.
I didn't buy WoW copies. I bought Diablo 2 battlechests usually to get access to the forums.
I didn't buy WoW copies. I bought Diablo 2 battlechests usually to get access to the forums.
Holy shit...
There is a bunch of personal prefences here, I'd honestly love TBC and by far the most beloved PvP expansion by all my friends around.
Saying how something is uncreative and imbalanced without a solution/suggestion is what we famuously call: QQing. Sorry.
Yup I'll support TBC because I love arenas. I'm well aware of all the other flaws with it, but that's why I think it should be on separate servers where you can import your classic characters.
That said, I hope they leave classic servers alone for at least 3+ years before they release TBC, since as people have stated throughout the multiple threads, the original TBC came way too fast.