This is a tough aspect of classic for me, and you all probably know that I'm more "classic+" than #nochanges so take this how you will.
I love that each class really has a niche in classic, I think it really makes you not only have pride in your class but really identify with them. The downside is that some specs that feel like they should be able to compete in certain scenarios just can't.
I'm just going to have to deal with the fact that enhance can't raid, and go melt people in pvp with my windfury crit procs.
I completely disagree with pretty much everything you just said.
So you really just mean that you'd quit a guild that had people playing sub-optimal specs? Then just say that instead of some blanket "people will quit" statement.
You make that statement is if that's actually some kind of truth. Being willing to play with sub-optimal specs doesn't make you less likely to try your best, it just means you understand that 40 people are coming to raid, and not all of them will be playing mage, warrior, or rogue.
You can disagree with the truth all you want to. It's the truth, plain and simple. If you don't understand that then you've never played in a guild with exceptional players.
I completely disagree with pretty much everything you just said.
So you really just mean that you'd quit a guild that had people playing sub-optimal specs? Then just say that instead of some blanket "people will quit" statement.
You make that statement is if that's actually some kind of truth. Being willing to play with sub-optimal specs doesn't make you less likely to try your best, it just means you understand that 40 people are coming to raid, and not all of them will be playing mage, warrior, or rogue.
You can disagree with the truth all you want to. It's the truth, plain and simple. If you don't understand that then you've never played in a guild with exceptional players.
Good luck with that mindset...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't want to be in a guild where the Moonkin gets the same shot at getting Nef's Tear as the top DPS mage, and neither does the top DPS mage. Simple.
If it's an LC and the Moonkin isn't getting it, the top DPS will likely be there, but then again the Moonkin might not (probably won't) be there.
I don't want to be in a guild where the Moonkin gets the same shot at getting Nef's Tear as the top DPS mage, and neither does the top DPS mage. Simple.
If it's an LC and the Moonkin isn't getting it, the top DPS will likely be there, but then again the Moonkin might not (probably won't) be there.
If you are playing a sub-optimal spec you have to accept that you're most likely going to be low on the prio for most gear.
Thanks guys for all of your advices!
Im concerned that my spec isnt optimal at all, but I don't really care about it. I just want to enjoy the game playing as i want, maybe not raiding in the best guild of my server, but it isn't something that actually concerns me.
I have another question for you. What weapon is BiS with enhancement shaman in classic?
I mean, i've been looking out there and now i just see [Nightfall] as a viable option if i want to be an enh shaman that also supports my raid team.
https://classicdb.ch/?item=19169 (link of the item)
Short answer, no. No guild worth it’s weight will let you raid as dps. At best they will let you raid as a healer whilst keeping your enhancement build. For a guild that’s not even cleared MC out, this is generous.
Of course in the beginning you might get to raid as dps, thanks to the number of players who didn’t actually raid in vanilla and know most of it only from watching pserver videos. If you do, thank your lucky stars and push extra hard to be the best, since any heal dps spec basically has to always be on their A+ game if you hope to out-dps a rogue/mage that’s semi-afk. If you don’t then you might be refused a spot once people realise what wow is all about.
I’m sorry, but raiding is a team effort and vanilla pulled no punches. If you want to play your way and straight up refuse to heal, curve your expectations on raiding and aim for BG exalted rep epics.
Thanks guys for all of your advices!
Im concerned that my spec isnt optimal at all, but I don't really care about it. I just want to enjoy the game playing as i want, maybe not raiding in the best guild of my server, but it isn't something that actually concerns me.
I have another question for you. What weapon is BiS with enhancement shaman in classic?
I mean, i've been looking out there and now i just see [Nightfall] as a viable option if i want to be an enh shaman that also supports my raid team.
https://classicdb.ch/?item=19169 (link of the item)
If you are dedicated to going to Enh shaman route, I would absolutely recommend trying your hardest to obtain Nightfall at the beginning!
Outside of that, items such as Sulfuras: https://classicdb.ch/?item=17182 , which would be a great weapon to have, are pretty unrealistic to expect to have as an Enh shaman.
Good luck with that mindset...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
In time you will find that most of the good DPS players share "that" mindset with me ;) enjoy raiding with your meme specced brothers, surrounded by mediocrity.
edit:
@OP, there's some theorycrafting being one on Enhancement Shamans working with Spelldamage instead Physical damage, it seems to be quite promising. You'll probably find this channel interesting: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQx0jujFmUV5eq4qx6YL
Personally I would get Nightfall ASAP and try to get Sulfuras to replace it. It'll be hard but if they let you raid as Enhancement you should really get it because you'll be (should be.........) the only person in the raid using 2H weapons, so you're technically the only one having it as mainspec. Nightfall can be done better than Enh by Hunters and offtanks anyway (higher uptime with Wingclip/Hamstring spam).
@OP, there's some theorycrafting being one on Enhancement Shamans working with Spelldamage instead Physical damage, it seems to be quite promising. You'll probably find this channel interesting: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQx0jujFmUV5eq4qx6YL
Iirc there were some people who said beta servers didn’t follow this rule and it was actually a pserver feature. It will have to be confirmed once we go live.
Good luck with that mindset...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
In time you will find that most of the good DPS players share "that" mindset with me ;) enjoy raiding with your meme specced brothers, surrounded by mediocrity.
Mate, if that's how you want to play the game that's fine but you don't need to shit on other people because they want to play differently.
I guarantee that even raiding with sub-optimal specs, my guild will kill just as many bosses as yours. :mrgreen:
Mate, if that's how you want to play the game that's fine but you don't need to shit on other people because they want to play differently.
I guarantee that even raiding with sub-optimal specs, my guild will kill just as many bosses as yours. :mrgreen:
Honestly I doubt it. Up to Naxx maybe but 4 horsemen is a pain and Patchwerk is very hard if your DPS isn't up there. You're not clearing those with 500 DPS shamans that would bring the exact same group buffs but also more than double the DPS (the DPS lost from not bringing a Warrior or a Mage for example) if they were healing. But hey, don't take my word for it, go for it and see where you end up. You might even prove me wrong.
I'm not shitting on people who want to play differently. People should play whatever the fuck they want to play. But people shouldn't expect other people to want to play with them, if it's 100% indisputable that their play style is bad (objectively: you only lose things for bringing a meme spec and gain nothing in return). And guilds who amass players with bad play styles will objectively be worse guilds than those that amass players with good styles.
So I'm one of those people that am super open to having lots of "non-optimal" specs in my guild and being pretty casual w/ the game (just don't have the time to go hard in the paint anymore).
That being said, enh dps is pretty rough. I think I'd still prefer only have one in a 40 man raiding guild and would be okayish without one in a 20-man only guild. But I won't flame anyone for playing how they want.
I don't want to be in a guild where the Moonkin gets the same shot at getting Nef's Tear as the top DPS mage, and neither does the top DPS mage. Simple.
If it's an LC and the Moonkin isn't getting it, the top DPS will likely be there, but then again the Moonkin might not (probably won't) be there.
If you are playing a sub-optimal spec you have to accept that you're most likely going to be low on the prio for most gear.
Luckily, any good guild is going to be tossing bones at least after first drop. If the guild is running moonkin then it really isn't about optimization and the people in the raid should know that from the start.
I don't want to be in a guild where the Moonkin gets the same shot at getting Nef's Tear as the top DPS mage, and neither does the top DPS mage. Simple.
If it's an LC and the Moonkin isn't getting it, the top DPS will likely be there, but then again the Moonkin might not (probably won't) be there.
If you are playing a sub-optimal spec you have to accept that you're most likely going to be low on the prio for most gear.
Luckily, any good guild is going to be tossing bones at least after first drop. If the guild is running moonkin then it really isn't about optimization and the people in the raid should know that from the start.
Is that really a good guild though? If, let’s say, you have 6 mages and 1 moonkin and a dps staff drops, twice, which is the better guild: the one with 2 mages wielding that staff or the one with a mage and a druid that barely makes mid-dps meters and 3 weeks later might decide to go feral cause ¯_(ツ)_/¯
A more realistic rule is the rule of 2 clears; meaning after the guild clears, for example, MC twice anyone can roll on anything (within some limits). This makes sure that, for starters, optimal classes get optimal gear.
Is that really a good guild though? If, let’s say, you have 6 mages and 1 moonkin and a dps staff drops, twice, which is the better guild: the one with 2 mages wielding that staff or the one with a mage and a druid that barely makes mid-dps meters and 3 weeks later might decide to go feral cause ¯_(ツ)_/¯
A more realistic rule is the rule of 2 clears; meaning after the guild clears, for example, MC twice anyone can roll on anything (within some limits). This makes sure that, for starters, optimal classes get optimal gear.
How do you define a good guild? One that gives priority to the optimal classes for everything? Or one that spreads the wealth to give everyone something to look forward to? I'd define it as one that works together to overcome challenges and equally rewards members for their service. Raids are on a weekly lockout and not every guild is going to be able to raid every raid every week. Hypothetically speaking, you give your mages/warlocks priority for loot in MC. Your moonkin gets their healing set but isn't able to get any caster drops because they have to wait a minimum of 10 weeks to get through every slot for the 10 mages and warlocks. BWL rolls around and your mages and warlocks get the same priority. That moonkin is still in Pre-raid BiS. That moonkin is playing to dps. They heal as needed, decurse as needed, preserve innervate as needed. They worked just as hard, if not harder than other dps to bring success to the raids. Is it right to deny them rewards just because their role isn't persistent? I wouldn't think so. I would think a rotating priority system would let every one get gear fairly. At worst, in the same amount of time your "optimal" classes would be one piece of loot behind. OMG as a raid we are doing 10 dps less than we should so we all failed to kill the boss! Not to mention this helps keep more loot within the raid should your members get sniped.
As for switching specs, they can do it on their own time. No guild is going to actively support a spec change unless necessary for the raid *cough*Naxx tanking*cough* or unless everyone else is geared up already. As for the loot, why be butt hurt over it when they earned it in the first place. Especially when there are more upgrades available for the other classes.
Big Raids will want 1 Enhance Shammy for WF with the melee...but good luck getting gear..competing w Rogues, Warriors and Hunters on gear. .even Druids on 2H weps
Big Raids will want 1 Enhance Shammy for WF with the melee...but good luck getting gear..competing w Rogues, Warriors and Hunters on gear. .even Druids on 2H weps
You're probably gonna get debated on the raid wanting an Enh just to buff a melee group, but slow 2H are usually Shaman priority anyway. Warriors want 1H, Hunters want stat sticks, Druids want stat sticks and crowd pummelers.
Big Raids will want 1 Enhance Shammy for WF with the melee...but good luck getting gear..competing w Rogues, Warriors and Hunters on gear. .even Druids on 2H weps
You're probably gonna get debated on the raid wanting an Enh just to buff a melee group, but slow 2H are usually Shaman priority anyway. Warriors want 1H, Hunters want stat sticks, Druids want stat sticks and crowd pummelers.
Yeah an Enh shaman won't have to compete with very many people for weapons. And enhancement shamans will probably be assigned Nightfall duty anyway. And the gear competition won't be THAT tight. Any reasonable guild will know what items to prioritize. And you're only competing with fury warriors and the few cat druids for strength items. Rogues don't want it. Raw attack power gear is more up for grabs but again, a smart guild will still prioritize appropriately.
From a raid mechanics perspective the only thing Enh brings to the table is:
- ability to totem twist WF and TA
- willingness to wield Nightfall
That doesn't mean that's the only way to get a raid spot though.
The #1 way to secure a raid spot as a non-optimal spec is to be likable. Classic is a game you play with PEOPLE not with specs.
Also back in Vanilla we were always short Shaman. Usually we only had 3 in raids but wanted at least 5.
Also the top DPS for phase 1 Horde will be a 2h Fury warrior with OEB and Edgemsters. Trouble is they will be very threat capped so Totem twisting for 4 warriors is actually quite valuable but nobody will directly recognize how you are contributing on the meters.