Also, to expand on this. you need 39 OTHER people to be "poopsock" worthy as you. Along with have RNGesus loot drops. A LOT of stars have to align. On top of all of this, pservers might launch even smoother than some retail expansions. Fighting mob tag competition, server crash, server DCs, server queues, all of this it going to really expand the speed run to 60.
You wont need 40 players to clear MC. You wont even need your entire roster to be 60. In regards to Pserver launches... Competing with 12k active users at any given time is not outweighed by dynamic respawns, ESPECIALLY if you are on a pvp server, which is the only option on private. Trust me, depending on how/if Blizz implements sharding for launch, Classic will be a complete breeze to level in compared to private. I havent looked into the specific implications of no progressive itemization during pre-bis, but that will also be a crutch in Classic that was not available on private as your guild gets drops during your MC clear. Farming consumes and world drops like devilsaur will also be incredibly easy on Classic compared to private where the server had about 30-40k players logging in periodically; peak time is ALL the time on private and this is painful for collecting herbs and resources.
The only thing left are boss values... Many boss values on private are spoofed based on extrapolated data and old combat logs. What does this mean? It means private is either very close to vanilla's values, private is potentially easier than vanilla was OR private may just be a little bit more challenging than vanilla was and Classic will be.
*An important point is also pets. Hunters are very important for speed clears. Hunter dps is nutty with Lupos, and all signs are pointing to Lupos being in his final state without shadow damage. This will hurt hunter dps and depending on raid comps, this could present issues for some guilds.
Overall I could see MC being cleared on the first lockout by guilds like Method who are already recruiting for their roster. Guilds like this have an immense amount of resources at their disposal, all the time in the world for players who live in gaming houses and are full time players and then the advantages of having each of those streamer audiences pooling resources towards their success.The preparation and time investment to an early Classic clear is nothing compared to what these guys are doing in retail. The average hardcore guild will see bosses down within 1-2 weeks and a rag kill within 2-3. On most servers MC will start being pugged by the 6 week mark so if you want to get in fast, spend some time getting up that Waterlord rep because pre-BiS wont necessarily gain you a spot but douses certainly will.
MC shouldn't even be unlocked until 2 months after launch. Let people stop and smell the god damn roses without being punished for it by falling behind in the raiding rat race.
Or, people can play at their own pace and not be dictated by others on how to experience the game?
I would think that Blizzard would have the boss values tuned quite high initially to curb 2 week clears. It's going to be a tough ask with no DM gear as it stands, but if they are also tuned harder it will be very challenging indeed.
I would think that Blizzard would have the boss values tuned quite high initially to curb 2 week clears. It's going to be a tough ask with no DM gear as it stands, but if they are also tuned harder it will be very challenging indeed.
Obviously the content wont be tuned harder at the start of the game.
for everyone here, see https://barrens.chat/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2105
A lot of this is covered in there. I think week 2 full MC clear is highly likely, I will be surprised if it doesnt happen.
Couple things to remember:
1. Beta numbers show dungeon grinding being really good xp/hour. arguably better than questing.
2. Because dungeon grinding looks so good, leveling and gearing are not mutually exclusive, but instead done simotaniously. most time can be spent in dungeon grind groups 52-60
3. /Played to 60 will likely be lower on classic than on PS's. A number of things in classic appear to easier on classic than PS, such as dungeons granting more xp/kill and mobs being significantly easier to kill in many cases overall.
4. Leveling routes have been min/maxed to an extent far more than orriginal release. Joanna was able to run 4.5 days /played to 60 on orriginal release, these routes were more secretive and harder to get access to back then. Now they are more or less public knowledge, been improved on, and the harder to level PS's have seen people hit < 4 days /played.
5. I cant verify this, but most people say reg grinds and attunement can be done pre-60 while level grinding too. Also, others in the linked thread above have stated this can be done in as little as 2 hours.
6. By the raw numbers, it's possible, but unlikely, to be done in week 1. Def possible in week 2.
The hardest part about this is organizing 40 people and getting them to all commit to this. (although you dont need a full 40)
The real question is, how quickly can you get a Prot warrior up to level 60?
lol right? everyone in the guild start funneling every warrior boe drop you get to your tanks mailboxes.
The real question is, how quickly can you get a Prot warrior up to level 60?
Dungeon cleave teams will likely see warriors hitting 60 in about 3-4.5 days played at the very highest level. Average melee cleaves can see times of 4.5-5.5 days quite easily. Keeping in mind that as long as a level 60 is killing tagged mobs that are 48 or higher, the person who tagged them doesnt suffer any XP loss. So this means that at any point someone in the guild hits 60, they can easily turn around and start killing tags for the warrior for a quick power level assuming the warrior has hit level 48 at this point.
Obviously the content wont be tuned harder at the start of the game.
As happened in every release of the game? Starts out tuned high, and is slowly tuned down to open it up to the masses. No?
In this case though, they do seem to just be doing a copy/paste from their 1.12 client, so it will be easier if anything. 16 debuff slots, all classes fleshed out, talents improved and bosses fixed/tuned. It does appears as if Blizzard stance is more leaning toward an exact recreation of 1.12, rather than 'Preserving an authentic vanilla experience" which it will not feel like. Vanilla was hard when it was new, it will not be hard now.
Yes.. Because artificially buffing Vanilla content past the actual difficulty of 1.12 is even remotely comparable to later expansions nerfing content as the expansion progresses right?
All it would do is to cause a shitstorm of drama when players realize the content suddenly got nerfed. Blizzard is ofcourse not going to do anything like this. It's completely out of the realm of possibility.
Yes.. Because artificially buffing Vanilla content past the actual difficulty of 1.12 is even remotely comparable to later expansions nerfing content as the expansion progresses right?
I think he/she is referring more to the pseudo-nerfing of content (actually the buffing of players) as vanilla progressed from 1.01 to 1.12
Yes.. Because artificially buffing Vanilla content past the actual difficulty of 1.12 is even remotely comparable to later expansions nerfing content as the expansion progresses right?
I think he/she is referring more to the pseudo-nerfing of content (actually the buffing of players) as vanilla progressed from 1.01 to 1.12
Indeed, feel free to check out this link to the forums where someone took the time to go through patches 1.1 to 1.12 to show the buffs to players and nerfs to raids which made the content easier and easier (i.e. nerfed raid difficultly).
This is what I am referring to. Boss abilities tuned/reduced/fixed to make them easier. Players abilities/mechanics improved, making raids easier. Stfuppercut and I have spoken about this quite a bit here in the forums. I am all for #nochanges, but that also includes no changes to the vanilla experience. All content could be tuned up for difficulty to provide a more 'vanilla' experience, and if after some time it is still too hard, they can of course tune it back down.
I don't know whether you want the easier raids to make Prot Paladin more viable? Or if you are just concerned with 1.12 #nochanges. Either way, we will get what Blizzard decide, not necessarily what some of us believe to be the right choice for gameplay experience.
The first guild to clear MC in the second week across all the servers should receive a https://classic.wowhead.com/item=17782/talisman-of-binding-shard
Removed or not, it was once a part of classic.
I don't know whether you want the easier raids to make Prot Paladin more viable?
Blizzard is remaking 1.12. Artificially buffing the difficulty of the raids beyond the actual difficulty of 1.12 is completely unacceptable. You are never going to be able to buff Molten Core to the point where it's actually difficult for the people hitting 60 in the first weeks of the game. All you achieve is to devalue the effort of any guild that clear MC after they eventually nerf it back down to its original difficulty.
And please. I find it very disingenuous how you attempt to ascribe motive to my argument that you are perfectly aware I dont have. The protection Paladin spec was not mentioned here at all. The fact that you bring it up in an effort to make it seem like my argument is motivated by personal gain is highly manipulative.
Stick to what I actually say.
The only way you would get the authentic difficulty back would be to start with the original 1.1 talent trees and class mechanics as well as progressive itemization as authentic as possible. The actual encounters in MC saw very little changes throughout Vanilla's lifespan.
Besides, if someone bought the game late and hit 60 in patch 1.12, then the Classic experience will be authentic to their experience. Artificially increasing the difficulty of the content is actually making the game less authentic. Not more.
And please. I find it very disingenuous how you attempt to ascribe motive to my argument that you are perfectly aware I dont have. The protection Paladin spec was not mentioned here at all. The fact that you bring it up in an effort to make it seem like my argument is motivated by personal gain is highly manipulative.
I'm sorry if I offended you or in anyway made you feel as if I was trying to diminish your argument, I was merely trying to find some reasoning or motive behind your resistance to what would be a relatively harmless way to help recreate the authentic vanilla experience without changing the game on face value level (We're talking about changing what was hidden values for bosses that private servers couldn't even get right). I'm sure you will do just fine in MC in week 2 based on your Paladin knowledge, experience and 1.12 talents/gear. I know that in earlier patches Prot Paladin may have been less viable, and as such picking up the game at 1.12 with non-tuned bosses would make your entire WoW ethos more approachable. If Blizzard came out an said "We are buffing raid bosses by 20% for damage and health" that may have in impact on early game Prot Paladin viability, which in turn would have a direct negative impact on you - hence my asking if that was why you were against it.
The only way you would get the authentic difficulty back would be to start with the original 1.1 talent trees and class mechanics as well as progressive itemization as authentic as possible. The actual encounters in MC saw very little changes throughout Vanilla's lifespan.
Blizzard were never going to do that, it was much too much time, effort, risk and no real way to do it accurately. The easiest way is to just simply tune the raid bosses/trash slightly up to be able to provide that original difficulty factor without the insane ridiculously over complicated job of doing progressive talents/spells/bugs/nerfs/buffs/items etc. going patch 1.1 to 1.12. I know why they are doing 1.12 from day 1, it's really fucking easy for them and causes the least amount of arguments and work. The simplest way to provide that difficulty is by artificially increasing the enemy difficulty. They won't do it unfortunately, but it is something I think would have been a good way to maintain 1.12 #nochanges to player side of things, and authentic vanilla experience by increasing enemy difficulty. People have already complained that the beta was too easy, I don't see that changing on launch.
It will be a shame to have Rag down in 1-2 weeks, he was the longest raid final boss kill of the entire vanilla World of Warcraft (154 days). I'm certainly not saying he should survive for even a quarter of that time, but maybe 3-4 weeks before first Rag would be slightly more enjoyable. People know how to power level, people know how to BiS gear, people know the strats, people can coordinate and plan out the whole process of lvl 1 to Rag kill for an entire guild. It won't take long, but if he is killed in week 1 with < 40 players in blues and greens, it will somewhat diminish and tarnish Ragnaros' glory days. Also it will make the rest of us look like shit kickers when it takes us 4 months! :wink:
Great page here by Method which goes through the history of Vanilla Raids: https://www.method.gg/raid-history
Great page here by Method which goes through the history of Vanilla Raids: https://www.method.gg/raid-history
Check this out guys! This is actually a really good historical list of all world firsts with videos. Awesome snapshot of Vanilla raiding history. I'm not sure if anyone else had linked this previous but this should actually be a thread in an of itself. I would love to see a Classic column added next to this for contrast. Would be nice to see the days bosses were alive, the kill timers etc to see some really hard numbers to contrast both lists and compare the games.