I'm wondering if anyone has put together an optimised talent route for Warriors in dungeon leveling yet?
Arms for sure because of Sweeping Strikes. Maybe something like this:
https://bobo-talents.aerobaticapp.com/?c=warrior&t=qfrqrryKyLqlryrzrArBqmslsxsHqiySyTsYp-rIqjrDrZr0r1r2rJrKrLyMqkqCsyszsAsBqEs8s9s_s.qAsCsDsEqFqzs-tatbtc
Hopefully someone that has more practice with cleave groups can chime in.
I'm wondering if anyone has put together an optimised talent route for Warriors in dungeon leveling yet?
Arms for sure because of Sweeping Strikes. Maybe something like this:
https://bobo-talents.aerobaticapp.com/?c=warrior&t=qfrqrryKyLqlryrzrArBqmslsxsHqiySyTsYp-rIqjrDrZr0r1r2rJrKrLyMqkqCsyszsAsBqEs8s9s_s.qAsCsDsEqFqzs-tatbtc
Hopefully someone that has more practice with cleave groups can chime in.
I have seen similar builds. I have also seen people drop mortal strike and axe spec, and opt to take up imp execute and flurry. It sort of depends on your role. Not all warriors on a 3 man cleave team will have the same role. You will likely want a battleshout warr, with piercing etc and then you will need warriors that are more focused on DPS. All warriors will be placing heavy value on imp cleave though from my understanding.
There was an interesting video regarding instance farming produced by Ebbnflow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unTcTXN-nnI
Likewise the Mage cleave group he was discussing was part of a Kargoz Live Steam VOD available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCzgzW9ixAc
I think that instance farming seems to be viable on Classic, what you need however is a committed group who wont stray and solo level their toons on the side. You also need to align your schedules to min/max the number of instance runs completed together.
An alternative to that however is simple solo level on one character and have another dedicated to instance levelling with our pre arranged group or Guild. Something that I'll be looking at doing. The Warlock alt being Solo and the Warrior Tank being 5 mans.
This guy is uploading vids of a melee cleave group leveling on a pserver.
@25k/hr in mid 20's
@45k/hr in mid 30's
@55k/hr in mid 40's
Not shabby, especially for warriors when compared to solo questing. Classic instances are supposed to be even better xp/hr than pservers.
This guy is uploading vids of a melee cleave group leveling on a pserver.
@25k/hr in mid 20's
@45k/hr in mid 30's
@55k/hr in mid 40's
Not shabby, especially for warriors when compared to solo questing. Classic instances are supposed to be even better xp/hr than pservers.
Yea, these numbers are absurdly high for warriors. An important consideration is how accessible these times really are. If we take the average player from private who dings 60 at 10-11 days played, and then we consider that the average warrior is higher than that... Bringing the average warrior from 11 days played down to 5-6 days played takes a TON of optimization and effort to their route. Meanwhile, that same warrior could jump on a cleave team and have instant improvement. They can instantly cut their leveling time in half. Its crazy.
Some gold estimates for dungeon grinding on horde are about: "We're expected to have run 192+ dungeons and have earned roughly 200g each by the time we're 42............." according to the 5-man instance leveling discord. They have some google docs showing how they obtained their numbers but it wont let me link it here =(
200g each? Holy shit.....
200g each? Holy shit.....
Yea. Their spreadsheet doesnt show a single epic drop either and it looks like they prioritized vendoring instead of DEing. They listed all of their items based on all of their runs and then normalized their numbers and used the median values to predict their consistent gold gain at each dungeon. They took that and multiplied it by the quantity of dungeons they ran.
edit: even if this number is off (which im certain it will be because private servers) this is still going to be an insane quantity of gold for players at 42. I know some early concerns with this method were regarding obtaining mounts etc, but that doesnt seem to be an issue either.
This guy is uploading vids of a melee cleave group leveling on a pserver.
@25k/hr in mid 20's
@45k/hr in mid 30's
@55k/hr in mid 40's
Not shabby, especially for warriors when compared to solo questing. Classic instances are supposed to be even better xp/hr than pservers.
WOW looks amazing, very nice selection of videos!
I seen a good contribution to this topic linked on Dungeonbosses discord from reddit for those interested - https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/cjvtdk/an_investigation_on_melee_dungeon_leveling_as_a/
Goes over the value of certain abilities and different level brackets and considers the value of cleave in general. Interesting stuff. By the way, props to the discord group Dungeonboss, its growing like crazy. I have one or two more friends to convince and we may be rolling with these guys. :lol:
Can you link the Dungeonboss Discord?
Thx
Can you link the Dungeonboss Discord?
<Dungeon Grind> https://discord.gg/6vpqyuZ
Has grown to over 100 members in a week lol.
Thank you for all the support - we are climbing in members quickly! The interest with dungeon grinding is insane. Launch day presents a lot of questionable variables. Leveling inside of a dungeon creates a place where a team can earn consistent XP. Currently working on a list of valuable items for our cleavers!
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=7717/ravager
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=9477/the-chiefs-enforcer
(as seen in the above video)
Questions still exist about some of these proc rates, but items like these are sure to add some value to your cleave team. Remember warriors, staffs are a good thing XD
This seems to be the hottest topic of the week.
Guaranteed the fastest way to level a Warrior if you can find the friends to make it work.
But since the discovery of this from analysing streamer VODs from the Beta, people have also analysed the rotations/skills that the groups were using.
These groups were not all Warrior Veterans, they were a bunch of guys trying to show off how good the XP is.
The Irony of calling it a Melee Cleave is that the Cleave skill itself is pretty much the last skill you want to use.
A friend sent me this analysis: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1z9qo9x2q89GVgz0E3nJ3SZq0eEv9H5wYVFYdCBATc14/edit#slide=id.p
TLDR - Don't replace your auto attacks with cleave.
Instead pull 4 mobs at a time, Rend everything till lvl30. Thunderclap. Sunders. Whirldwind.
Your auto attacks on a Sundered Target return more Rage.
In addition for those that don't want to play Melee classes, the spell cleave comp focuses on farming instance trash and not the bosses.
Whereas the Melee Comp group is reliant on the upgrades from bosses.
The Irony of calling it a Melee Cleave is that the Cleave skill itself is pretty much the last skill you want to use.
I don't think that this is why they were calling them cleave teams. "Cleave is a term used to describe an arena composition where a majority of the players or damage dealers are melee classes. The term became popular in season three of the arena PvP system, when multiple 3v3 "double melee" compositions began to climb arena ladders." This is why caster teams are referred to as spell cleave teams, regardless of the fact that none use cleave. In World Of Warcraft now, cleave is more of a playstyle and is a word used to describe attacking multiple targets at the same time.
Also, while this spreadsheet is super informative, it simply reinforces the adaptations that we're being pushed by pserver players who are optimizing this.
KURTIZZLE Stfuppercut I need to see that data properly tested. The writer makes a lot of big assumptions — that mobs have enough armor for sunder to make a difference, that they will be full health when sundered, that rend always ticks to completion, and on and on. What about extra windfury procs from cleave hitting two targets? (author is only writing about pre-30)
Dungeon grinding was the way to go to level alt back in the days with geared 70+. it will be viable BUT:
-you need to know your instance, know when to switch to the next one.
-you need to kill faster an elite mob with 5 persons than the time it take for you to kill a single mob of the same level in solo outside. Hunter and Warlock will generally level faster alone if they have an unlimited batch of mobs.
-You need to understand that some instance are way to difficult / long / annoying to waste time leveling in them.
-you need to have the same 4 partners that know how to play with you so you don't need to devise strategy on every pull
-you need to optimize your pull to minimize downtime
-you need NOT to get ganked everytime you reset the instance on a pvp server
There's a google doc in the resource channel of the Dungeonboss discord which puts this method in perspective. Can't link it for some reason.
Imagine if you saw someone advertising in /world "LF Melee group for 28x SM GY Runs!!"
Dungeon grinding was the way to go to level alt back in the days with geared 70+. it will be viable BUT:
-you need to know your instance, know when to switch to the next one.
We have that route mapped out and readily available for teams. Both from Hakurais reference and the theorycrafting our members have been doing on the route.
-you need to kill faster an elite mob with 5 persons than the time it take for you to kill a single mob of the same level in solo outside. Hunter and Warlock will generally level faster alone if they have an unlimited batch of mobs.
This is heavily reliant on variables you can not control on a fresh launch. Especially on a PvP realm. Dungeon grinding on the other hand allows you to level in a controlled environment with predictable results.
-You need to understand that some instance are way to difficult / long / annoying to waste time leveling in them.
This is accurate. Also, you wont be completing most dungeons. You will often only be doing parts of dungeons and resetting. Are you a spell cleave team in WC? Youre going to prioritize that main room with raptors because rounding them up and kiting them around while aoeing them down yields insane XP and is VERY high reward and VERY low risk. You will focus on pulls that are level appropriate and that yield the best xp per hour and then reset when those are done to redo the best pulls.
-you need to have the same 4 partners that know how to play with you so you don't need to devise strategy on every pull
This is the single biggest variable to making this work. The reliability of other players.
-you need to optimize your pull to minimize downtime
Eh.... this is easier than people make it out to be. Melee cleave is a faceroll. Pull mobs. Attack mobs. Pull more mobs. Dont stop. Never stop. A regular 5 man team will use far more CC and coordination in a pug than most melee cleave teams are using. Spell cleave on the other hand takes a great deal of coordination, but has the highest potential for xp per hour.
-you need NOT to get ganked everytime you reset the instance on a pvp server
This is the strength of a dungeon grind team, they are going to be ganked less often in wPvP than the average player. Could you run into another cleave team? Potentially. But this is a far cry from the massacre that will be happening in STV and other contested zones.
Lendryn I re-watched the Zul F instance video and they blew the monsters to pieces long before you would have time to stacks Sunders and tab our Rend on all targets.
This was above lvl 30.
I still think that Whirlwind and Sweeping Strikes will outperform Rage dumping via Cleave.
I also noted a lot of running over to the next pack with zero Rage and not utilising Charge, perhaps it's a cooldown thing or a organisation thing avoiding everyone being in combat permanently.
All that stuff said, I'm watching this topic, it is very interesting.