Pre 60? No. But I have tanked all the 5mans succsessfully. I think I might have done a couple LBRS before I hit 60 though.
@Iban Yeah, you could probably pull that off with a blue shield as well without a problem. They really did not hit too hard with Stoneshield Pot and Lay on Hands active. Just make sure you have enough health because the damage you take can be a bit spiky. I assigned two healers to heal the tank on Garr and had everyone else heal me and it was fine. Also make sure you get dispelled insantly.
Mp5 for tanking is not too great. You get some for free on Deathbone but otherwise the value you get from it is not large enough to use it over other items for any other slot.
Some sad news that I had my guild test on Monday. It's been speculated that Consecration might take up a debuff slot, and I was able to get my guild to run the test on that in Phase 1 Onyxia.
What happens is that using Consecration will remove other debuff, and the priority for Consecration is high enough that it will remove somewhat important debuffs such as Winters Chill from the boss. Hoping this might be a bug, and plenty of people have submitted bugreports, but in case its not actually a bug it means that Paladins, and especially Retpaladins got a lot less viable for raiding all of a sudden.
Protection will probably be fine, as their role in raids allow for the usage of Consecration as long as you stick to either trash, adds, or bosses where you can either rely on Greater Kings alone, or use Consecration to build up threat while the raid is busy dealing with some other target first.
In any case, inform your guilds, as Holy Paladins might be putting up Consecration to "help out" when they dont have targets to heal, and that actually lowers the dps of the raid if debuffs are optimized.
Isn't conc just good for snap aggro anyway, and you spam judgement of righteousness otherwise?
@IBAN were you a warrior tank back in vanilla in the valour legion guild?
@IBAN were you a warrior tank back in vanilla in the valour legion guild?
woah! yes! And you were the undead mage!
I have a bunch of accounts now, some on US and some in Europe, but been raiding with the Americans recently as holy paladin
Just yesterday I was actually at Shattrath in MC, which we do now by chugging an arcane protection potion and nuking him down, and I remember Tyneen's voice from all those years ago and how complicated our strats used to be back in Vanilla! And all the banter and jokes which would happen during our raiding. Very memorable community back then. And so many years are going by...
I also saw Tahra three months ago on the European forums! He still plays retail and considers it superior, so it wasn't a friendly exchange. but I actually saw Sin (Chohag) reply just before the thread was deleted. Very cool stuff. Those were special days
What happens is that using Consecration will remove other debuff, and the priority for Consecration is high enough that it will remove somewhat important debuffs such as Winters Chill from the boss. Hoping this might be a bug, and plenty of people have submitted bugreports, but in case its not actually a bug it means that Paladins, and especially Retpaladins got a lot less viable for raiding all of a sudden.
I hope it gets fixed that sucks :(
They can definitely put down a lot of threat, but the lack of a taunt ability makes it very hard to regain aggro if you lose it.
Paladins have no Taunt and are entirely dependant on mana. Once they OOM it means no more agro
Yeah, losing aggro on taunt immune bosses usually is pretty hard to get back.
The idea is to not lose aggro, so don't lose aggro and you'll be fine.
We don't lose aggro when we go oom. There are also things called Mp5, Mana pots, Dark/demonic runes, seal/judge of wisdom and innervate in the game. It's weird honestly. But lets ignore all that.
Appreciate the copy and paste MMOChampion rhetoric though.
Yeah, losing aggro on taunt immune bosses usually is pretty hard to get back.
The idea is to not lose aggro, so don't lose aggro and you'll be fine.
While their comments are sort of lazy and unproductive I will agree with them. This is one of my primary reservations to the prot paladin. You depend on the group understanding your short-comings and accommodating them. If we're being honest, most players are pretty bad, and a feral druid or a warrior can tank in spite of others being bad, where as a prot paladin is sort of at the mercy of the group. This is simply the reality of a prot paladin. In a strong group that accomodates the prot pally, prot paladin tanking can work. In an awful group, things can spiral very quickly. But the strong group would do well regardless of what tank they brought because they are strong and the weak group could be salvaged with a different tank.
I agree with the group dynamic being strong or weak to a degree but I've found myself carrying raids quite a lot honestly. With Blessing of Kings being a meta which is confirmed to not be a bug; threat is a non-issue. I'd purely out-threat warrior tanks any time of the day. Ontop of that this makes it kind of a soft-taunt. If you're MTing or hugging threat you can steal threat through 1-3 blessing casts easily which is fine overall for raiding. So taunt swap fights are not issues anymore which was always my main concern tanking as a paladin.
Gear is the only issue in my eyes. It is 100% easier to gear as a warrior, no questions asked. Prot paladins take more dedication to perfecting their gear and obtaining certain pieces from each raid in order to not feel you're lagging behind. Pre-BIS along side with Dark Iron ring/Shield and ony trinket will do just fine in BWL progression. BWL will be a boost in gear and AQ40 will rocket you. But it's a lot of patience.
Prot paladins are always a casual guild's tank. Or casual guilds that call themselves "Semi-Hardcore". But that being said I've been having zero issue carrying my own weight and more throughout the couple MC's and Ony's ive maintanked so far. (Shazz, a boss I gave up on trying to tank on private servers, i'm now tanking with zero effort and easily "taunting" him every blink through King spam).
four screenshots from today's raid. 
Been a while since I was on here. But I suddenly remembered Stfuppercut said he would follow Duki's progression on youtube, and have to ask if you are impressed? :P
Been a while since I was on here. But I suddenly remembered @Stfuppercut said he would follow Duki's progression on youtube, and have to ask if you are impressed? :P
Progression like bwl progression? I'm assuming it's quite fast considering world first was less than an hour. Perhaps it'll take paladin tanks a few days? especially considering you can cheese it with Gbok spam and if you have tfury.
BWL is easy. The only issue that falls onto prot paladins again is gearing is a lot slower versus a warrior.
Been a while since I was on here. But I suddenly remembered @Stfuppercut said he would follow Duki's progression on youtube, and have to ask if you are impressed? :P
Bahaha, yea I actually am impressed. He recently cracked lower blackrock spire so hes actually hit 60, which I did not anticipate.
Been a while since I was on here. But I suddenly remembered @Stfuppercut said he would follow Duki's progression on youtube, and have to ask if you are impressed? :P
Progression like bwl progression? I'm assuming it's quite fast considering world first was less than an hour. Perhaps it'll take paladin tanks a few days? especially considering you can cheese it with Gbok spam and if you have tfury.
I guess Duki's personal (and his guilds) progression. :)
Still no MC content from Duki but he has been posting videos about Throne Kingdom War, Counterstrike Zombie Mode and has recently been releasing some informative videos on how to tank the coronavirus. Still hasn't stepped foot in a raid as a prot pally 7 months into Classic.
I see this thread is still going. Yeah I wouldnt put my money on seeing Killerduki posting any videos of raids any time soon, but I can keep you guys update on what I myself have been doing for last few months if anyone here is still intersted in how Paladin tanking has evolved so far throughout Classic.
After doing MC for the past few months as a tank I have tanked every boss in there succesfully. I can say that for Molten Core, Paladin tanking is very viable indeed, and we are perfectly capable of tanking all the trash and bosses. There's some things we still struggle with, especially trash without a taunt because Molten Core at this stage of the game is quite fast paced and DPS wants to go as hard as they can as soon as possible. This is to be expected and I dont want our DPS to hold back on threat during MC trash 5 months into the game. I still think Warriors/Druids are the superior choice for trash mobs for that reason and our Warrior tanks still take point on trash.
For bosses however its a bit of a different story. GBoK still splits threat between all mobs in combat so for Lucifron, Gehennas, Sulfuron I am mostly tanking the boss itself, while I tank dogs on Golemagg and adds on Garr. Our guild has also been switching tanks around a lot for the other bosses to let everyone have a shot at tanking them. This is I feel good for morale in the guild when every tank get to feel as if they are the maintank.
When it is my turn to tank, right now I feel Paladin threat in a guild like ours that dont enforce world buffs is perfectly fine for keeping up with DPS. I have moved away from a spellpower based build to focus more on hit chance, and on regenerating mana through Seal of Wisdom/Judgement of Wisdom so I can use more Greater Blessing of Kings for threat.
For a little summary of how Molten Core has been for me, here's some videos that I made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6fJCO8A2Ic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pkhwkwkIYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0Ypi95kOA
When it comes to Blackwing Lair, our guild has now been successfully clearing it since week 1. My approach there is to try and play my spec into the raid using the strengths of the build where it gets to shine, and we use Warriors to tank where Protection Paladin would be weaker, Ebonroc for example is not something I want to tank because the lack of Taunt means you can never target swap when you need to.
I have actually been pretty amazed so far how well its possible to make the spec perform. The lack of taunt is still a big weakness, but we work around this by using me on trash that dies last. I also tank the technicians on the lab packs. For bosses, well Vaelastrasz is a big no-no for me. The enormous increase in damage output from our DPS because of infinite rage/energy means my threat output really is not enough to keep up. There's also the added danger that I get targeted prematurely by Burning Adrenaline because of having a mana bar. I have so far left this boss to the Warrior tanks while I swing Nightfall for the casters.
Other than that, I have tanked Razorgore. I control the orb there. That makes it easier to raidlead, calling out corners getting overwhelmed and getting a good overview of the room between breaking eggs. It also means getting huge amount of threat on the boss as soon as Phase 2 starts from being the person doing the Mindcontrol. We then proceed to have myself and the warriors fight for threat in P2 so the boss jumps to them when I get conflaged.
I tank suppression room aswell. I think im the clear candidate for that through the aoe threat I can output in that room and having Consecration to pick up whelps. Sometimes the whelps even die on their own without the need to aoe from using all the reflective gear/skills on the trash, and then me and all the Warriors keep fighting for threat on Broodlord to keep him off the DPS.
When it comes to Firemaw, not having a taunt is rough on that boss. We have had me tank it a few times however. As long as I am in a maintanking roles and the Warriors dont mess up the Wing Buffets then I can successfully tank him. I have to say though, that even though I am capable of tanking this boss it is undeniably safer using Warriors here in case Taunts get resisted and the following Mocking Blow also miss/gets dodged or parried. If the offtanks mess up the Buffet there's just nothing I can do at that point and the Warriors will have to take over the boss for the remainder of the Fight while I either try to climb back up on threat with GBoK, or just switch to a Nightfall.
So far for the past 3 weeks it has worked just fine though, and I managed to record one of our kills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acRa3r5Z4no
Flamegor is the same thing, just without the Flame Buffet stacks. I will try tanking Chromaggus in the near future, but because he can hit really hard after 20% health we have chosen to go with Warrior tanks so far for the Shield Wall, just to make it a little safer.
One boss that I really do think we can do well though, is Nefarian. I gave that an attempt last week, and with a Paladin on the boss you dont have to worry about the Warrior class Call which makes it a lot less stressful for the healers. Nefarian do hit really hard though and I dont think attempting to tank this boss is a great idea if you are still wearing deathbone and crafted blue gear at this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPkz7wxe8mI
Other than this, I would say our greatest weakness in this raidtier is not having access to the same kind of mitigation gear as Warriors have, and not having emergency cooldows such as Shield Wall/Last Stand. The lack of taunt makes you less of the optimal choice for some of the bosses but most of BWL is immune anyway. Some of our shortcomings does become apparent in BWL though. Especially with the Wyrmguard trash and Chromaggus where holy damage is reduced by 80% or so. Not as big of a deal for Chromaggus since GBoK should get the job done, but its much more of a problem with the Wyrmguard trash where GBoK is split. What I will do there is just to use Warriors on each of the Wyrmguards while I try to use some GBoK in the hopes that they go for me should any of the Warriors lose aggro. Not having a taunt is also a handicap for these trash mobs since they have a tendency to reset threat a lot.
I hope this post gives some insight into Blackwing Lair as a Paladin and help anyone still reading this thread to keep up with Paladin tanks :-) Cant wait for future content to see how we get by there.
1st one down, 2nd one to go.
And great post Holy, you do a lot better laying stuff out than most people, specially me. I'm too blunt about it.