Looking forward to your raid videos Duki! Go go level fast!
My plan is to make examples of all Dungeons , but i am so busy until october so , it will take some time ;)
Hello, guys. First post on the forum. I got really excited about this discussion.
Until level 20 the paladin journey was quite interesting, knowing these news regions and cities were quite an experience. After grabbing the 2-handed quest mace I felt the most powerful being in the universe! But after 32 all guides and stuff were suggesting to re-roll to prot/ret. I started researching the internet and found those new videos uploaded by Holyfrog and I got myself all turned up to try to do the same. I'm having a ton of fun with the SM tanking with the prot.
Do you guys, with all the experience you gathered, have some info about how a prot pally would do with the engineering shield wielded by a prot pally. Reading about it I felt like a interesting synergy might be made.
Edit (new question): is there a place, discord, of something where the "prot paladin community" share info?
I'm not surprised that there havent been any examples of prot pallies in Classic during progressive raids. I feel like we will see the first ones start to pop up as offspec silly time within the next few weeks as the content is farmed more and more. I know our guild is now easily clearing MC with two raids weekly. We could definitely let a prot pally toss on a shield and act goofy for a few hours while we carried them through the content. We wouldnt... But we could.
I anticipate that we will start to see pally videos pop up over the next few weeks to month on teams that were easily clearing the content before they arrived. Useless thought if it cant be done / isnt done, during progression.
However.... I am eagerly waiting to see what happens when Holyfrog hits MC and hope to see him in a progressive raid team because this is probably one of the best representatives of this spec AND I would trust his assessment after he hits MC and has cleared the content. Not only does he have a strong grasp of the spec, but a realistic and objective view on its capabilities, so I am VERY interested in watching his progression. I know you arent the type to self-promote frog, so I'll do it for you =).
On the shaman side of Tanking we're 5/10 Molten Core, so Prot paladin should definitely be high up there.
I'm not surprised that there havent been any examples of prot pallies in Classic during progressive raids. I feel like we will see the first ones start to pop up as offspec silly time within the next few weeks as the content is farmed more and more. I know our guild is now easily clearing MC with two raids weekly. We could definitely let a prot pally toss on a shield and act goofy for a few hours while we carried them through the content. We wouldnt... But we could.
I anticipate that we will start to see pally videos pop up over the next few weeks to month on teams that were easily clearing the content before they arrived. Useless if cant be done / isnt done, during progression.
However.... I am eagerly waiting to see what happens when @Holyfrog hits MC and hope to see him in a progressive raid team because this is probably one of the best representatives of this spec AND I would trust his assessment after he hits MC and has cleared the content. Not only does he have a strong grasp of the spec, but a realistic and objective view on its capabilities, so I am VERY interested in watching his progression. I know you arent the type to self-promote frog, so I'll do it for you =).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET610NrX62M
You remind me of the kid in highschool that constantly reminds everyone that you're taking advanced classes, except this time it's over a video game.
On the shaman side of Tanking we're 5/10 Molten Core, so Prot paladin should definitely be high up there.
Any videos of that happening during progression or will we wait for a few more weeks until everything is on farm and your guild simply swaps you in when they've amassed enough gear to carry you?
On the shaman side of Tanking we're 5/10 Molten Core, so Prot paladin should definitely be high up there.
Post some vids Caperfin. Shaman tanking is so intriguing to me (for lower lvl dungeons more so, but if they can tank raid targets thats impressive).
Does damage from Retribution aura counts towards threat generation for the tank?
Does damage from Retribution aura counts towards threat generation for the tank?
Yes,
Also, in regards to prot pally in general. I feel that the threat generation created by them overall is pretty big. Do we know of anyone crunching the numbers yet to see if they out threat warriors or druids? I may just be crazy, but I really feel that pally threat is off the charts.
My prot pally buddy has been using bubble as a taunt and it has been working spectacularly. It seems so obvious in hind sight, but I don't remember it being used in that way.
Also, seems that the judgements essentially equal a taunt. I have seen prot specs lose threat against mages, warriors, etc and a single judgement snaps it back almost all the time.
My prot pally buddy has been using bubble as a taunt
How does it work? Ithought with bubble ads would attack other players!
This thread just won't die, sweet jesus and all that is holy.
Will someone bury it?!
This thread just won't die, sweet jesus and all that is holy.
Will someone bury it?!
I’ll have you know that this thread carried barrens chat through a massive content drought and introduced us to a whole host of new posters like Duki and Frog. This thread marked the death of the old barrens chat and the beginning of the new generation with monarch, gnoll and duki. This thread is a very important part of barrens chat history.
How does it work? Ithought with bubble ads would attack other players!
So how I believe it is working:
When tanking, the tank is #1 on threat meters. When a dps hamers a target, or heals pulls threat for a mob off tank, they are now #1, and tank is most likely #2 on threat meter. When he bubbles the new #1, all mobs drop threat on target, and return to #2 (The new #1). So shadow priest pulls threat off pally, pally bubbles spriest, mob turns around and attacks tank. He usually sinks a judgement into that mob right away for good measure too.
When he bubbles the new #1, all mobs drop threat on target, and return to #2
Holy cow! Genius! Thanks
The threat on the BoP-ed target does not disappear - its only set to 0 temporarily while the BoP is active so unless you manage to out threat the DPS when the BoP is on the mobs will return to him that's why you need to follow up with the Judgment.
Best course is probably to assess who is generating too much threat in Your group and placing a Blessing of Salvation on them full time. Melee will probably hate you for that as you can give only one blessing so it's either BoS or BoM
Not putting BoSalv on trigger-happy DPS is like a warrior not using Sunder for threat, it simply doesn't make sense not to use a spell in your toolkit to manage threat when fights in Vanilla are balanced (get this) around threat...
The threat on the BoP-ed target does not disappear - its only set to 0 temporarily while the BoP is active so unless you manage to out threat the DPS when the BoP is on the mobs will return to him that's why you need to follow up with the Judgment.
Best course is probably to assess who is generating too much threat in Your group and placing a Blessing of Salvation on them full time. Melee will probably hate you for that as you can give only one blessing so it's either BoS or BoM
To follow up on this, it could be possible to bubble that guy AND then follow up with BoS on him, then turning to the mob with a judgement and of course a couple of swings. The bubble would return the mob to you asap, the salve + judgement combo would allow you to turn the threat tables back to you before the bubble wears off.
I haven't measured anything myself, but do you know if you continue to generate threat while bubbled? Like, i know it is set to 0 for the duration, but if you keep DPS'ing are you building threat in the background, and once the bubble is done all that threat is applied? Or are you temp set to 0 threat, and you generate 0 more threat for the duration.
Either way, a bubble + judgement seems to be super reliable quasi taunt for him. I have seen it a handful of times, and I haven't seen a mob turn back to the DPS or heals once the bubble wears off.
@here, anyone got the time and data collection to crunch more numbers into this and figure out what exactly is going on with the threat here?
I am not sure how it looks in Classic at the moment, but normally.. When You BoP someone they have 0 threat and they generate 0 threat during when the BoP is active.
What I'm curious though is how much threat we are generating from mama restore on judgment of wisdom. Non-natural mana restores should generate AoE threat.
If it generates threat that's another source for us we can use and probably we should be keeping it up on a mob we are hitting.
Edit:
OK I crunched some numbers for the Seal of Wisdom judging and if it indeed adds threat it looks like this:
@60:
Base Mana: 1512
Mana restore: 2% of base per hit
Threat:
Signle Target: 30 /hit
Multi target: 15 - 30/hit for each mob in combat (depends on the amount of mobs, minimum is 15)
Not much but well still something we can get for free if we cycle our judgments and keep up the debuff on the mob.
To put matters into a perspective for a single mob scenario this level of threat generation should be more effective then a Thorium Shield spike enchant to the shield nice!
I'm not surprised that there havent been any examples of prot pallies in Classic during progressive raids. I feel like we will see the first ones start to pop up as offspec silly time within the next few weeks as the content is farmed more and more. I know our guild is now easily clearing MC with two raids weekly. We could definitely let a prot pally toss on a shield and act goofy for a few hours while we carried them through the content. We wouldnt... But we could.
I anticipate that we will start to see pally videos pop up over the next few weeks to month on teams that were easily clearing the content before they arrived. Useless if cant be done / isnt done, during progression.
However.... I am eagerly waiting to see what happens when @Holyfrog hits MC and hope to see him in a progressive raid team because this is probably one of the best representatives of this spec AND I would trust his assessment after he hits MC and has cleared the content. Not only does he have a strong grasp of the spec, but a realistic and objective view on its capabilities, so I am VERY interested in watching his progression. I know you arent the type to self-promote frog, so I'll do it for you =).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET610NrX62M
Randomly decided to check this forum for the first time since Classic released, and what do I see. Thanks for promoting me I suppose haha. I cant say I have had time to do much content so far. I was just recording every dungeon I did during leveling and uploaded the raw videos with some music. People seem to like it however.
As for Raid Content, dont expect to see a lot in the near future. I am currently running and raidleading my own MC pug so I can get Bindings, but I am currently healing as I want the pug to go smooth and efficient, and I dont really want to burde the pug by trying to tank as Protection. If I did we could not be able to hold the kind of pace I want the pug to hold. Our last raid cleared in under two hours which I feel is pretty solid for a pug.
Eventually I want to give tanking a shot, but not until the raid has better gear and we can offset some of the issues with the spec. The lack of taunt is a huge for MC, especially when we aim at doing quick pulls in the way that we currently are. We will just see what the future hold. I am collecting tank gear though, and I have been recording 5 man footage that I eventually want to put commentary on to talk about the spec itself and how I approach tanking in general. Just havent had the time to edit and do anything with the footage so far.
We are still figuring out the specifics on Paladin tanking in Classic as well. A lot is different than Private servers, and a lot is the same. I dont really want to be making videos and give advice until I know exactly how it works myself. As an example, it was recently figured out that Righteous Fury improve the threat from all holy school effects instead of just holy attacks like the tooltips says. If this turns out to be the intended behaviour, and we currently believe it might be, it will open up for some interesting strategies such as casting Greater Blessing of Kings on the raid for threat and have the threat generation multiplied by the number of players hit similar to how Battle Shout functions, as well as the blessing getting the threat multiplier from Righteous Fury.
This has the potential to be producing quite significant threat, but we have to see how it works out in an actual raid and if the behaviour is even intended. Some of the classic spell behaviour has already been nerfed/fixed. An example of this, up until a few days ago, Blessing of Sacrifice would transfer crits through the blessing which mean that if you cast the Sacrifice on say a Druid tank, you would gain Reckoning stacks every time the Druid would get crit which increased your own threat output.
This turned out to not be the intended function of the blessing, and It got fixed yesterday.
Feel free to follow my youtube channel and look out for any future videos that I will be posting on Protection. I just got done with all my prebis farming (mostly) and I should have more time to produce actual content from now on. Just want to make sure my information is accurate and good before I make any definitive statements in a video, as god forbid there's enough misinformation out there already.
-Holyfrog
I am currently running and raidleading my own MC pug so I can get Bindings, but I am currently healing as I want the pug to go smooth and efficient, and I dont really want to burden the pug by trying to tank as Protection.
Eventually I want to give tanking a shot, but not until the raid has better gear and we can offset some of the issues with the spec.
As usual Frog, your assessment and honesty is appreciated. A true voice for prot paladins. I wish you the best on bindings!