A more realistic scenario would be your Maul just doing 200 damage or 523 threat with a 20% chance for an extra 523 threat. In that same scenario with a Judgement that does 200 damage would do 390 threat + SoR 109 + auto attack damage at let's say 110 = 609. That's just Maul vs JoR, but the situation is very similar and they both have ways of increasing threat deliveries. Let's face it, if the healer needs 500+ threat to have a mob pulled off they healed some one with a big heal right after pulling an add which is the perfect time to use emergency cooldowns: taunt/challenging roar and BoProtection. Or they'll live with one or two whacks for pulling an add.
Just to add = on top of that JoW is going to provide him 0.5 threat per 1 mana or JoL is going to provide him 0.25 threat per 1 heal.
Still in 1 or another way , SoR/JoW/White swings vs Maul are going to provide lot higher due to JoW/JoL factors in it. (On top of Doubling Weapon Proc thanks to SoR like Thunderfury which is going to make massive AoE threat compare to Maul)
A more realistic scenario would be your Maul just doing 200 damage or 523 threat with a 20% chance for an extra 523 threat. In that same scenario with a Judgement that does 200 damage would do 390 threat + SoR 109 + auto attack damage at let's say 110 = 609. That's just Maul vs JoR, but the situation is very similar and they both have ways of increasing threat deliveries. Let's face it, if the healer needs 500+ threat to have a mob pulled off they healed some one with a big heal right after pulling an add which is the perfect time to use emergency cooldowns: taunt/challenging roar and BoProtection. Or they'll live with one or two whacks for pulling an add.
Just to add = on top of that JoW is going to provide him 0.5 threat per 1 mana or JoL is going to provide him 0.25 threat per 1 heal.
Still in 1 or another way , SoR/JoW/White swings vs Maul are going to provide lot higher due to JoW/JoL factors in it. (On top of Doubling Weapon Proc thanks to SoR like Thunderfury which is going to make massive AoE threat compare to Maul)
The whole point was snap threat. In a group scenario you normally aren't going to waste mana to use JoW/L for threat in a multi target situation because the threat gets divided and the mobs usually die too quickly. A boss is different, but you usually don't need snap threat for that and consecration is usually good enough.
I skipped 16 out of 17 pages because I'm really surprised this lasted so long. I see peeps crunching numbers, I see others saying yes in dungeons, don't let your dreams be dreams and so on. But to be quite blunt, if you can't swim then stay the hell away from water.
You [Paladins] can't tank swap so forget about ever being MT or OT on any raid, that's the obvious part, but you're also absolutely dangerous to the rest of the party on any dungeon you set foot on as a tank. I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
You have what? a Hammer of Justice stun and Righteous Fury? It's not sustainable, and it's going to be a very slow run.
I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
I skipped 16 out of 17 pages because I'm really surprised this lasted so long. I see peeps crunching numbers, I see others saying yes in dungeons, don't let your dreams be dreams and so on. But to be quite blunt, if you can't swim then stay the hell away from water.
You [Paladins] can't tank swap so forget about ever being MT or OT on any raid, that's the obvious part, but you're also absolutely dangerous to the rest of the party on any dungeon you set foot on as a tank. I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
You have what? a Hammer of Justice stun and Righteous Fury? It's not sustainable, and it's going to be a very slow run.
lol. "I'm willingly ignorant and admit so before posting my uninformed opinion created from prejudice."
Thanks for your wonderful contribution.
Pluuf I think you overdosed on the salt there mate. You must have played a different vanilla than mine.
blah blah blabbity blah
You must have played a different vanilla than mine.
By the https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=6942/overwhelming-stench of https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=16375/sewage-slime , I say ! This https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=1270/fetid-corpse wrote so much nonsense that insulting him properly would take a bloody essay !! It sounds like the https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=10925/rotting-worm talks out of his hollow ass !!! Stay on the Horde side https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=364/slime , we don't need your kind around here ! And learn to vanilla before you open your cadaverous gob !!!
I skipped 16 out of 17 pages because I'm really surprised this lasted so long. I see peeps crunching numbers, I see others saying yes in dungeons, don't let your dreams be dreams and so on. But to be quite blunt, if you can't swim then stay the hell away from water.
You [Paladins] can't tank swap so forget about ever being MT or OT on any raid, that's the obvious part, but you're also absolutely dangerous to the rest of the party on any dungeon you set foot on as a tank. I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
You have what? a Hammer of Justice stun and Righteous Fury? It's not sustainable, and it's going to be a very slow run.
About time we had some comic relief here, appreciate the quick joke amongst this serious discussion about furry cosplayers trying to tank vs our Chad warriors of the light.
Now back to talking about how prot paladins are the best paladins.
1. Because we are.
2. Because we can get away with wearing 5/8 T2 judgement, arguably the coolest tier set in the game while tanking.
Try and beat that. You can't. You think druids are cool until they shift back into their leather gimp suit and you have warriors that look like giant can openers. It's not lunch time, its raid time. Dress more appropriate.
Yeah... you let me know how that Taunt works for ya on Chromaggus mate.
29.5% is Classic Int = 1% Spell Crit (ONLY) for Paladins.
Holyfrog
Doesnt actually work that way 30. Int being 1% spellcrit is apparently just a private server thing seen on the Beta. Paladins have the exact same int to spellcrit conversation as any other class per the Beta. Perhaps if you actually followed the Beta development instead of leaving every discord in existence every time people disagree with you, you might know these things.
Private servers actually have it scripted this way which is most likely something that got changed in TBC to compensate for the nerf to Illumination at low tier gear levels (my guess).
Either way, my point is that that concluding that crit chance is twice as high in Classic based on Judging a mob 200 times on both private servers and on the Classic stress test is simply being stupid. How much int you need for 1% spellcrit isnt going to change that.
Besides, without seeing your actual data we cannot really know if even did a proper test. Judging mobs lower level than yourself will give you a higher chance to crit, and vice versa. From everything I have read on you in this thread so far, I have no reason to think you would properly have conducted a test like this on mobs of the exact same level.
You got Ganus McAnused there Kall!
I skipped 16 out of 17 pages because I'm really surprised this lasted so long. I see peeps crunching numbers, I see others saying yes in dungeons, don't let your dreams be dreams and so on. But to be quite blunt, if you can't swim then stay the hell away from water.
You [Paladins] can't tank swap so forget about ever being MT or OT on any raid, that's the obvious part, but you're also absolutely dangerous to the rest of the party on any dungeon you set foot on as a tank. I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
You have what? a Hammer of Justice stun and Righteous Fury? It's not sustainable, and it's going to be a very slow run.
Then I suggest you actually read the thread? Having the opinion that Paladins are literally useless is just as bad as thinking they are the best tanks. Im just fascinated how people consistently stick to their opinions when those opinions are clearly not formed based on reality, but rather what they think and feel.
There's nothing wrong with Paladins as far as dungeons are concerned, and multiple videos has already been linked showing Paladins can clear 5 man dungeons just as well as other tanks.
The issue with the class is in raids mainly due to gear and single target threat output. Actually doing a 5 man isnt a problem.
Edit:
Yeah... you let me know how that Taunt works for ya on Chromaggus mate.
I guess I have should finished reading before responding. Chromaggus isnt tauntable so clearly this guy hasnt done content past MC. Hardly someone with a relevant opinion then.
my point is that that concluding that crit chance is twice as high
I have should finished reading before responding
Yeah... you let me know how that Taunt works for ya on Chromaggus mate.
You're making it worse for yourself.
You're making it worse for yourself.
You're right Caspus, so I found some time and followed Holyfrog's advice and read some more of the thread. I don't appreciate people talking in absolutes, and I did just that whilst being wrong (and stubborn), so my apologies, same for goes for Pluuf. My vision is also skewed because I vanilla'd mostly as Horde, in all that time I've seen one occasion where a prot paladin took over Overlord Wyrmthalak when UBRS was still a raid and the Warrior DC'ed, don't ask me how the ads were handled as I don't recall.
I've never done privates since then, so I'll concede that in 12'ish years people probably optimized and tinkered the shit out of it in privates, which I haven't kept tabs on, so yes, my opinion is dismissable, I'm not one to not admit when I'm wrong :)
.
Chromaggus isnt tauntable so clearly this guy hasnt done content past MC.
Actually I resent that because we did progress up to C'thun and a couple of bosses in Naxx, so Chromaggus was in hard farm, it's been like 12 or 13 years so I'm rusty on decade+ old tactics. On the other hand I made an ass of myself so I deserved that one Holyfrog.
On the other hand I made an ass of myself so I deserved that one @Holyfrog.
Dont worry about it. Everyone have this image in their mind of how Vanilla was based on what they have heard. It's just natural. Being willing to learn and get new perspectives is rare though,.
Hope you find the thread interesting between all the drama.
Each time it does miss = Rage lost , Each time it does Dodge = Rage lost , Each time it does Parry = Rage lost , Each time it does not Crit = Rage lost
(especially with the Blue Post which Blizzard explained how Crit work and it's nearly 4 times lower than Pservers) .
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/bug-hit-tables/185675/12
Quoting : Critical Strike chance is reduced by 1% per each additional level the target has over the player. (So if you have a 4% chance to crit an at-level target, you have a 1% chance to crit a +3-level target, in both clients.)
You do ignore that ^ it seems .
Imagine thinking 4% crit is 4 times lower chance to crit, what a fucking nutcase. Can someone just throw this dude out on the streets already? every single thing he is written about in this thread is wrong. He's claming shit are working on the Beta which they're not. Paladins are getting like 20% weaker compared to private servers because of stuff like SoR not proccing oils/enchants, there are partial resists etc. And this spreedsheat of rigerous testing seems to show that paladins are going to take 40-50% more damage then warriors. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRVNabnxWQoq4Ya_cNDMKuZJwf9zbfzWhe3qf6d08gEk3OuJJ_z_zgERPRaDioAGux14ORx6thE6Hub/pubhtml #
Anyway, any paladin that wants other people to take them seriously. Stop wasting your time reading what Duki posts. Its mainly incorrect information because he can't really accurately test things due to him not knowing how basic math works like how 4% less crit doesnt translate to 4 times lower chance to crit.
Ill also save Duki some time and post the Beta list we compiled over the last few months with Paladin spell behaviour on the Beta. That way there's no need to re-test mechanics and be confused over how they really work.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mm35UbThStzV-fxCwy1kK0QleiZCQTqryVz1qbsyt8g/edit?usp=sharing
Each time it does miss = Rage lost , Each time it does Dodge = Rage lost , Each time it does Parry = Rage lost , Each time it does not Crit = Rage lost
(especially with the Blue Post which Blizzard explained how Crit work and it's nearly 4 times lower than Pservers) .
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/bug-hit-tables/185675/12
Quoting : Critical Strike chance is reduced by 1% per each additional level the target has over the player. (So if you have a 4% chance to crit an at-level target, you have a 1% chance to crit a +3-level target, in both clients.)
You do ignore that ^ it seems .
Imagine thinking 4% crit is 4 times lower chance to crit, what a fucking nutcase. Can someone just throw this dude out on the streets already? every single thing he is written about in this thread is wrong. He's claming shit are working on the Beta which they're not. Paladins are getting like 20% weaker compared to private servers because of stuff like SoR not proccing oils/enchants, there are partial resists etc. And this spreedsheat of rigerous testing seems to show that paladins are going to take 40-50% more damage then warriors. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRVNabnxWQoq4Ya_cNDMKuZJwf9zbfzWhe3qf6d08gEk3OuJJ_z_zgERPRaDioAGux14ORx6thE6Hub/pubhtml #
Anyway, any paladin that wants other people to take them seriously. Stop wasting your time reading what Duki posts. Its mainly incorrect information because he can't really accurately test things due to him not knowing how basic math works like how 4% less crit doesnt translate to 4 times lower chance to crit.
You write like Taladril have everything correct there = Which isn't , neither he has anything properly documented regarding Protection Paladins.
All he got is Private Server and Hearsay theorycrafts (all those who pretend an experts of Prot Paladins like Holyfrog/Cystheen/Skarm , but have no clue what they talk even about regarding Protection Paladins).
First of all , i never advocated SoR proccing oils/enchants, that's Holyfrog ways , not mine , neither i said it suppose to , opposite of that , i also argued with Theloras about it either , that it SHOULD NEVER PROC THEM , only WEAPON PROCS (which is working correct).
Partial Resists did and do exist in Pservers, which are so much higher than Classic even!
The 4% less crit is not what i wrote, it's what BLUE POST as OFFICIAL wrote!
Straight your facts before you come up with more of the hates regarding me and more of these lies!